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Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

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Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#141

Post by Stratoscope »

Stratoscope wrote: post #108
csense wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "poem" is depressing. Off topic: It's never made sense to me why people call things that don't rhyme "poems." As far as I'm concerned, this is an essay, not a poem.

It's a type of poetry called "free verse". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_verse http://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-free-verse-po... Here is the classic story of a Real Programmer, written in free verse: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html This story was originally written in prose, and it apparently got converted to free verse more or less by accident as it was bounced around mailing lis…

  Another way to put it,
  I suppose you could say,
  is that the difference
  between prose and free verse
  is the number of lines.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#142

Post by rayiner »

jasallen wrote: post #127
rayiner wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rape analogy is misplaced because humans, unlike say ducks, do not primarily reproduce through rape. Also, appeal to nature fallacy is not applicable because I'm not making a "good" versus "bad" conclusion. I'm thinking of "mental illness" in terms of whether it's an evolutionary mal-adaptation, not in moral terms. And while it is true that loners, outliers, and dropouts often contribute great value to society, i…

"...the bulk of collective social value is produced by people following the pack/tribe" This is stated as fact, but is the most contentious statement you could possibly make. In fact, I would argue that nearly every 'hero' character from both real history and mythology/fiction (which speaks to our cultural 'beliefs' sometimes better than our actions which are as guided by fear as belief) are quite the antithesis. Our…

> Our heroes are heroes because it takes something more to innovate than it does to join.

"Heroes" have vastly greater impact on the imagination than they do on the GDP.

> You also use the hyperbolic phrase 'loners, outliers, and dropouts'

That was click's phrase, not mine.

> innovator, an inventor, an individual

None of those things are coextensive with anti-authoritarian/anti-establishment, which is what this thread is about. Most innovators and inventors are nonetheless perfectly happy to work within the established power structure and take orders when necessary. Picking a random example, Tim Breners-Lee. You think a guy who has spent his life in government-funded research and academia is in any way anti-authoritarian?

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#143

Post by katbyte »

LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #130

I had a teacher in High School who was a genius. He wanted us to think independently. One time he assigned a homework to the class where each of us had to study a mental illness of our choice. Mine was narcissism. And we had to go to a psychologist or psychiatrist, pretend that we have the disease and the task was to be convincing enough to get diagnosis. More than 80% of students passed. We were all officialy crazy…

I have a friend who goes to i think 3 different doctors pretending to have various mental illness to get a variety of prescription pills he then sells with a huge markup.

ADHD --> adderall/vyvanse anxiety --> ativan/xanax/etc insomnia --> sleeping pills

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#144

Post by neilk »

throwaway1980 wrote: post #100
neilk wrote: post #3

I sometimes ask mental health professionals what the converse of Oppositional Defiant Disorder is. At what point do we recognize a disorder in a child who is unnaturally compliant and obedient? No answer so far. I ask because I think I had this. When I was a young prodigy I had the mentality of a performing seal. It's true that some people have difficulty controlling themselves, and they do need help. But the lack of…

Excessive obedience often means you had overly needy parents who couldn't tolerate you acting out. So, you take care of their needs by not causing problems. This probably isn't recognized in the DSM as a disorder, since on the surface it appears good for a structured, smoothly operating society, but one term that you will probably identify with if you search a little is "parentified child". There are quite a lot of b…

Pretty much, yes.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#146

Post by 205guy »

There is a word that hasn't come up in this discussion, and that's Asperger's. I know some people with Asperger's who are very oppositional and some who are not. Given that ADHD is sometimes considered the tail end of he Autism-Asperger's spectrum (not always, this is new and controversial), I think it is reasonable. As top commenter bjhoops says: "it is probably much more common that some kinds of mentally ill individuals happen to be anti-authoritarian."

And I don't really agree with it either, but Einstein has often been co-opted by Asperger's support groups as one of their own.

From my admittedly limited reading on autism, Asperger's, and other behavioral diagnoses, they are not mental illnesses but rather alternate "wirings" of the brain. People on this spectrum can (to varying degrees) learn to deal with the "neuro-typical" world around them, but they can't change their brains. And these are not one-dimensional conditions: people on the spectrum have any number of different wiring, from social handicaps to language problems, hypersensitivity to touch or noise, face recogniition, etc.

I suspect that anti-authoritarianism is one of these dimensions. It can exist on it's own in an otherwise "neuro-typical" person, but it often gets added to other deficiencies on the Autism-Asperger's spectrum.

I am not saying that blind adherence to authority is "typical," but I think there is often a recognition of parental and social authority that is mostly normal which is what the anti-authoritarian lacks.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#147

Post by barry-cotter »

csense wrote: post #90
bjhoops1 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of a poem my favorite Math professor used to share, about a little boy who was always instructed exactly how to draw a picture of a flower: http://home.bresnan.net/~cabreras/theboy.htm

This "poem" is depressing. Off topic: It's never made sense to me why people call things that don't rhyme "poems." As far as I'm concerned, this is an essay, not a poem.

If how it sounds is as important when read out as the information content it's poetry. Even if you disregard free verse that isn't all poetry. The Norse skaldic tradition is amazing and they were much more into assonance than rhyme. Think rap but without a backing track.

http://www.okcupid.com/profile/Hibernian/journal?cf=profile Is this poetry?

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#148

Post by Allower »

If anti-authoritarian means "question[ing] whether an authority is a legitimate one before taking that authority seriously. Evaluating the legitimacy of authorities includes assessing whether or not authorities actually know what they are talking about, are honest, and care about those people who are respecting their authority." than the rest of humanity really are ignorant fucking sheep.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#149

Post by invalidOrTaken »

Jtsummers wrote: post #87
thecoffman wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is sad that the sort of bigoted opinions you're espousing here are what us firearms enthusiasts have to endure. It has nothing to do with machismo, nothing to do with Obama, and nothing to do with birther garbage. The right to bear arms is a right of last resort. Its the right that protects all others and, as such, it is the _most_ essential right. As for naming incidents in the last 100 years where armed resistan…

An issue facing firearm enthusiasts is that the most vocal (or at least the ones getting the most press) are in those camps. It's the same problem that faces many other groups, the extremists and zealots are the loudest and the ones people outside the group see. Any reasonable voice gets drowned out. > The right to bear arms is a right of last resort. Its the right that protects all others and, as such, it is the _mo…

If the 2nd is intact, the 1st will follow. Not so the other way around.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#150

Post by hosh »

bjhoops1 wrote: post #125
argonz wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attachment and insecurity issues can be greatly improved with psychedelic induced trips (with safe setting). If mushrooms, ayahuasca or similars are very hard to get(in my country it's hard) holotropic breathwork is reported to have similar effect, although can't reinforce that. This message is more like to anyone with attachment issues, I've just read your brother is 13 years old so mehh, don't know.. Safe bet that…

I'll get right on that and recommend that to my parents. :P It is interesting the recent research on psychotropics, though.

Meditation, which takes a longer route to the psychedelic states, can also help and has less stigma attached to it. Something to consider at least.

By its very nature, the practice (such as Vipassana) involves not becoming attached to rising stimulus, on a moment-to-moment basis. I can tell you from personal experience, someone who is habituated to be sensitive like your brother, will have a difficult time with this. Further, there's nothing you can do to make your brother do this practice.

The thing about well-guided mushroom and Ayahuasca experiences is such that you learn what it is like to not be sensitive to arising stimuli, and as such, seek out practices like this. (Though there are other things going on too). If you are serious about looking into using psychedelics for therapy (possibly when your brother is older), it may be something to do together rather than throwing your brother out into the void.

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