Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US • Hacker News Board

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#141

Post by danmaz74 » Wed, May 08, 2013, 7:05 PM UTC

jkldotio wrote: post #116

claudius wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "the measurement, in millimetres, of the thickness of a transverse section of the fruit between the lateral faces and the middle, perpendicularly to the longitudinal axis" Oh, look, a good definition in a legal document. Don’t people normally complain about ambiguous laws leaving interpretation open to the courts[0]? > Regulations over the official ingredients of jam So that consumers can buy jam everywhere in the…

>Oh, look, a good definition in a legal document. Don’t people normally complain about ambiguous laws leaving interpretation open to the courts Yes you have a "good definition" in the law there, but what is the law for ? It can't have been too important if they repealed it and some people deny its existence. >Or are you just annoyed that this is measured in millimetres rather than imperial attolightfortnights or simi…

Yes you have a "good definition" in the law there, but what is the law for? It can't have been too important if they repealed it and some people deny its existence

AFAIK, that law was actually a protectionist scheme to favor African (ex-colonies) banana producers against South American ones in EU markets.

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#142

Post by danmaz74 » Wed, May 08, 2013, 7:06 PM UTC

pcrh wrote: post #124

AlexMuir wrote: post #52

HN kicks up an almighty fuss about any attempts to regulate our industry (see online payments, sales taxes, etc.) but we are happy to pass judgement on others. In Europe we can barely stop people from selling horsemeat as beef. I'm not sure how effectively we are implementing any of these rules, and I'm sure a farmer who wishes to do so can flout them at will. One positive thing to come from the rise of supermarkets…

The article is also a little slanted, in that the described only those practices permitted in the US, but banned in the EU. There are many practices where the reverse is true, such as the manufacture of certain cheeses from non-pasturized milk being permitted in some parts of the EU, which can lead to a number of diseases.

The article is from a publication which wants policy change in the US. I guess they don't care as much for the welfare of us Europeans :)

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#143

Post by X4 » Wed, May 08, 2013, 7:08 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #122

X4 wrote: post #92

We need more advanced Gardens and 100% recycling of everything we use, the system must have a working circular flow. No Genetic engineering, or processing of our food. It took billions of years for the nature to create the foods that are perfect for us, we cannot create something better (in a few hundred years). I wish that someday the entire Human race on Earth will be as enlightened as the people in Star Trek.

> It took billions of years for the nature to create the foods that are perfect for us, we cannot create something better (in a few hundred years). Bullshit. We created those foods. Our staple crops and domestic animals have all been genetically engineered via selective breeding and trial and error for millennia. Food processing - making bread, cheese, salted meats, canned foods etc. from raw materials - allowed us t…

I honestly don't understand why you are so aggressively against my opinion? Genetic-engineering isn't bad per se, I see huge value of it in Reversing the genetical damage (esp. RNAi and siRNA therapies).

I said: "..we cannot create something better (in a few hundred years)."

You said: "We created those foods". [..] all been genetically engineered [..]

Where is the proof that these processed or genetically engineered foods are better? To clarify things, we DID NOT create those foods, we modified them. Creating is food is clearly something entirely different. We've not advanced that far in Bio-sciences.

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#144

Post by EliRivers » Wed, May 08, 2013, 7:13 PM UTC

arrrg wrote: post #58

jkldotio wrote: post #6

The flipside of this are things like the banana regulation, more commonly known as Commission Regulation (EC) No 2257/94.[1] I believe it's now rescinded under ridicule but there are people who try to deny it even existed. It's well worth reading in full on eur-lex for riveting prose like "the measurement, in millimetres, of the thickness of a transverse section of the fruit between the lateral faces and the middle,…

For context, you always have to keep in mind why those laws exist. What is the goal that is towering above all else for the EU? The one it has actually been relatively successfully implemented? Creating a common market, of course! For a common market to exist it is obviously not enough to open up the borders to people, labor, goods and capital. It is also necessary to have common rules and regulations for the goods a…

"What is the goal that is towering above all else for the EU? The one it has actually been relatively successfully implemented?"

I thought it was an attempt to stop Europe engaging in endless major land wars.

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#145

Post by heyzzz » Wed, May 08, 2013, 7:13 PM UTC

Like a lot of other political decisions in the US - they still choose to go with the unlogical choices which in this case would be to not implement some of these bans. I guess there are commercial interests behind these decisions like the gun politics, alcohol laws, etc. What else can you expect in this semi-corrupt country?

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#146

Post by EliRivers » Wed, May 08, 2013, 7:14 PM UTC

X4 wrote: post #92

We need more advanced Gardens and 100% recycling of everything we use, the system must have a working circular flow. No Genetic engineering, or processing of our food. It took billions of years for the nature to create the foods that are perfect for us, we cannot create something better (in a few hundred years). I wish that someday the entire Human race on Earth will be as enlightened as the people in Star Trek.

Nature's bananas are bloody awful.

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#147

Post by ceejayoz » Wed, May 08, 2013, 7:17 PM UTC

X4 wrote: post #143

ceejayoz wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It took billions of years for the nature to create the foods that are perfect for us, we cannot create something better (in a few hundred years). Bullshit. We created those foods. Our staple crops and domestic animals have all been genetically engineered via selective breeding and trial and error for millennia. Food processing - making bread, cheese, salted meats, canned foods etc. from raw materials - allowed us t…

I honestly don't understand why you are so aggressively against my opinion? Genetic-engineering isn't bad per se, I see huge value of it in Reversing the genetical damage (esp. RNAi and siRNA therapies). I said: "..we cannot create something better (in a few hundred years)." You said: "We created those foods". [..] all been genetically engineered [..] Where is the proof that these processed or genetically engineered…

> I honestly don't understand why you are so aggressively against my opinion?

Because statements like "took billions of years for the nature to create the foods that are perfect for us" are false and absurd. Nature didn't create foods to be perfect for us. The goal of natural selection was for those organisms to survive, not necessarily to be tasty to humans, and most of the foods we eat were modified by us to our liking.

It's the same sort of argument anti-vaccine nuts use. "We were fine before vaccines!" No, we weren't. Millions upon millions died of easily preventable, natural diseases.

> Where is the proof that these processed or genetically engineered foods are better?

Try surviving off wild bananas or the wild grasses we bred into wheat and rice. They're harder to digest, yield less, etc.

> To clarify things, we DID NOT create those foods, we modified them.

And? We're doing that with GMO foods, too. Humanity hasn't yet created even a single-celled bacterium from scratch, let alone a corn plant.

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#148

Post by derekp7 » Wed, May 08, 2013, 7:17 PM UTC

shabble wrote: post #63

tokenadult wrote: post #10

The most sensible European regulations of those listed in the article kindly submitted here are "What Europe did: Banned all forms of animal protein, including chicken litter, in cow feed in 2001." and "What Europe did: In the EU, all antibiotics used in human medicines are banned on farms—and no antibiotics can be used on farms for 'non-medical purposes,' i.e., growth promotion." I'd like to see the United States fo…

> For the other regulatory practices mentioned in the article, especially washing chicken carcasses, I'd like to see more detailed evidence of the safety trade-offs involved in the practices of the United States and of Europe. There was the relatively recent story in Forbes[1] (HN comments at [2]) about the difference in US/UK treatment of eggs, where the UK standard is to leave them unwashed to protect a natural ant…

I'd lean more toward your second comment. One of the comments on the previous HN coverage inferred that leaving the eggs unwashed was so that dirty eggs would never make it to the consumer -- thereby encouraging farmers to keep a cleaner chicken coop.

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#149

Post by baddox » Wed, May 08, 2013, 7:19 PM UTC

R_Edward wrote: post #125

tokenadult wrote: post #10

The most sensible European regulations of those listed in the article kindly submitted here are "What Europe did: Banned all forms of animal protein, including chicken litter, in cow feed in 2001." and "What Europe did: In the EU, all antibiotics used in human medicines are banned on farms—and no antibiotics can be used on farms for 'non-medical purposes,' i.e., growth promotion." I'd like to see the United States fo…

>Banned all forms of animal protein, including chicken litter, in cow feed in 2001. Saw a Dirty Jobs segment some time ago in which a Nevada pig farmer picks up all the waste from several casinos' buffets, hauls it out to his farm, hand-picks the plastic and other inedible crud out of it, liquefies it, steams it to kill off some of the bacteria, then feeds it to his hogs. My first thought was that it was pretty cleve…

Is there a health concern from pigs eating pig meat, or is it just something that seems gross?

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#150

Post by ricardobeat » Wed, May 08, 2013, 7:19 PM UTC

jkldotio wrote: post #6

The flipside of this are things like the banana regulation, more commonly known as Commission Regulation (EC) No 2257/94.[1] I believe it's now rescinded under ridicule but there are people who try to deny it even existed. It's well worth reading in full on eur-lex for riveting prose like "the measurement, in millimetres, of the thickness of a transverse section of the fruit between the lateral faces and the middle,…

There is nothing ridiculous about that regulation. 80% of it is common sense written down. The line you quote is describing where to measure the thickness, since it varies across the length.

According to the article this regulation is still in effect.