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Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

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Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#51

Post by fianchetto »

ceejayoz wrote: post #38
gdsimoes wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read two Einstein's biographies and I have come to the conclusion that if he was born today he would probably be a college drop out. Some people say that geniuses always survives life hardships, but the fact that there are no new Einsteins (or Maxwells, Plancks...) seems to show this isn't true.

> Some people say that geniuses always survives life hardships, but the fact that there are no new Einsteins (or Maxwells, Plancks...) seems to show this isn't true. No new Einsteins, Maxwells, and Plancks? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_in_Phys...

A Nobel doth not a genius make.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#52

Post by chris_mahan »

mrchucklepants wrote: post #47
chris_mahan wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. I see the main problem as this: Many people want to keep firearms to keep the power of the government in check, and the government wants to write the rules on who can keep arms. This causes a friction. Either the people give up the right to bear arms and trust the government fully, or the government should not be allowed to make rules on who can keep arms. Anything short of that will continue to cau…

Your second paragraph is a perfect explanation of the conflict at the core of the gun control debate. Well said.

Thank you.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#53

Post by cinquemb »

chris_mahan wrote: post #15
bjhoops1 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me you don't actually want these folks armed.

Wait, weren't the people who fought to make America independent upset with the King's Authority? Would you not say, today, that they were anti-authorianists? Would you not say that an oppressive government would use such a "medical condition" to confiscate guns from people who disagreed with it? Think hard about this, and ask yourself what you would have done in 1774: sided with the Revolutionaries, or sided with the…

As far as I'm aware most colonists at the time didn't participate, but the complacency is always desired by people in power.

And a lot of slaves and native americans sided with the Royalists and decent portion gained freedom after the war in GB (though many were returned to their masters after the fact), so I think whose side one would take is more complicated than being mere anti-authoritarians.

This crashcourse video points out some of these things: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EiSymRrKI4]

Despite it all, I would say that an oppressive government could use "medical condition" to confiscate weapons, but whether the populous is armed or not has little to do with the oppressive nature upon the governed in any country.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#54

Post by [deleted] »

nostrademons wrote: post #24
neilk wrote: post #3

I sometimes ask mental health professionals what the converse of Oppositional Defiant Disorder is. At what point do we recognize a disorder in a child who is unnaturally compliant and obedient? No answer so far. I ask because I think I had this. When I was a young prodigy I had the mentality of a performing seal. It's true that some people have difficulty controlling themselves, and they do need help. But the lack of…

"Low self-esteem", sometimes colloquially called "people pleasing" or "being a doormat". A good therapist will recognize this and encourage the child to develop more of their own interests and assert themselves more.

[deleted]

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#55

Post by betterunix »

chris_mahan wrote: post #5

Wait, let me guess... As such, they are not allowed to buy weapons, right? How convenient...

Most psychiatric diagnoses will not prevent you from buying a gun. You have to either make an insanity plea (that is actually accepted by a court) or be involuntarily committed for the restriction to kick in, at least as I understand things.

Of course, the gun control crowd would probably want any psychiatric disorder to be grounds for preventing someone from buying a gun, if only as a way to ban large numbers of people from firearm ownership.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#57

Post by jmillikin »

jessriedel wrote: post #31
nostrademons wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Low self-esteem", sometimes colloquially called "people pleasing" or "being a doormat". A good therapist will recognize this and encourage the child to develop more of their own interests and assert themselves more.

Sure, sure. But would be ever prescribe prescription drugs for this? Everything you're describing is characterized as a personality trait , whereas the OP (who I hardly fully agree with) is claiming that anti-authoritarian sentiments are labeled a disease . Obviously, this makes a big difference in how these phenomena are treated.

  > Sure, sure. But would be ever prescribe prescription
  > drugs for this?
If there was a drug shown to improve self-esteem in children, it would likely become one of the most profitable drugs of all time.

  > Everything you're describing is characterized as a
  > personality trait, whereas the OP (who I hardly fully
  > agree with) is claiming that anti-authoritarian
  > sentiments are labeled a disease.
ADHD and ODD aren't diseases, they are disorders. When it comes to psychology/psychiatry, "disorder" is basically a word that means "personality trait that negatively interferes with everyday life".

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#58

Post by betterunix »

bjhoops1 wrote: post #8
chris_mahan wrote: post #5

Wait, let me guess... As such, they are not allowed to buy weapons, right? How convenient...

Please tell me you don't actually want these folks armed.

When the authorities' agents look like this, you better hope the people who question authority are armed:

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/swat-team-10a.jpg

http://inmenlo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/SWAT-team-comp...

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#59

Post by alan_cx »

chris_mahan wrote: post #34
6cxs2hd6 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why we can't have nice firearms. Seriously: I fully support background checks -- extending what we already have, to cover all sales. I also think that if motor vehicles require registration, insurance, and license to operate, then firearms sure as heck should, too. Even so, if I'm being intellectually honest, I also have a twinge of doubt when it comes to "mental health" grounds, and I have some concern about…

I agree with you. I see the main problem as this: Many people want to keep firearms to keep the power of the government in check, and the government wants to write the rules on who can keep arms. This causes a friction. Either the people give up the right to bear arms and trust the government fully, or the government should not be allowed to make rules on who can keep arms. Anything short of that will continue to cau…

"Many people want to keep firearms to keep the power of the government in check,"

Really?

Are you sure its not just a case of guns being ingrained in American culture and make the owners feel all macho and strong, and that any old excuse is good enough to argue that they should be allowed to keep huge pointless arsenals of weaponry?

I mean, from what I can tell, such people are generally on the right of politics, and at the same time they argue that they need guns to protect against a threat from within, they believe Obama is a non American, communist, Muslim. Well, er, wouldn't that be a great threat from with in to the US? Where were these citizen protectors of American freedom when Obama the commie Muslim took office? Shouldn't they have been using their arsenals to protect America? Or do such people actually know they are taking nonsense?

On top of that, when in the last, say, 100 years has the US government posed a threat to American citizens, such that they citizens needed to break out the weapon to protect them selves?

Frankly I think its more to do with male machismo, culture and being stuck in the 17th century. They have always had guns, and what ever logic you argue with, they simply don't want to change. If you managed to convince then that the government isn't out to get them, they'd just find another excuse.

It reminds me of fox hunting in the UK, or bull fighting in Spain. All these things defy reason, logic and decency, but we all want to hang on to them, simply because they have always been there. Heh, its kinda like saying you can have music any more.

I'm sorry, people may claim they want guns for the reason you cite, but I honestly don't believe them at all.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#60

Post by alan_cx »

ctdonath wrote: post #30
Jtsummers wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, why bring that into this discussion? The linked article says nothing about firearms.

Because it absolutely is a related issue these days. New York and California are, as a result of very recent legislation, actively seeking out and disarming those labeled "mentally ill". The USA's federal leadership is pressing hard to do the same. Genuine at-risk cases aside, we're facing a situation where sensible liberty-defending anti-authoritarian citizens may very well be involuntarily labeled as ODD and disarm…

"New York and California are, as a result of very recent legislation, actively seeking out and disarming those labeled "mentally ill". "

What? On top of everything else the mentally ill get to own guns? That is honestly shocking to me.

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