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Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

madinamerica.com

31–40 of 211 posts

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#31
post #3

I sometimes ask mental health professionals what the converse of Oppositional Defiant Disorder is. At what point do we recognize a disorder in a child who is unnaturally compliant and obedient? No answer so far. I ask because I think I had this. When I was a young prodigy I had the mentality of a performing seal. It's true that some people have difficulty controlling themselves, and they do need help. But the lack of…

"Low self-esteem", sometimes colloquially called "people pleasing" or "being a doormat". A good therapist will recognize this and encourage the child to develop more of their own interests and assert themselves more.

Sure, sure. But would be ever prescribe prescription drugs for this? Everything you're describing is characterized as a personality trait, whereas the OP (who I hardly fully agree with) is claiming that anti-authoritarian sentiments are labeled a disease. Obviously, this makes a big difference in how these phenomena are treated.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#32
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that you are right in that there is probably a disorder in that particular case, but seeing the lack of symmetry in general to be an indication of a problem seems off. As far as I can tell we don't expect such a symmetry in the rest of medicine. I don't think there is an opposite of lung cancer.

lung necrosis?

Ha, fair enough.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#33
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, weren't the people who fought to make America independent upset with the King's Authority? Would you not say, today, that they were anti-authorianists? Would you not say that an oppressive government would use such a "medical condition" to confiscate guns from people who disagreed with it? Think hard about this, and ask yourself what you would have done in 1774: sided with the Revolutionaries, or sided with the…

Take it easy on the rhetoric. No, those founding fathers were not anti-authorianists to the degree that people would call a pathology. The continental congress did not descend into a bunch of bickering every time someone asked someone else to do something. They were mostly, from all reports, pretty well-adjusted and got along with each other civilly even with major disagreements on how to do things.

But their political opponents would not hesitate to have them declared pathological, and so proceed to establish "legal" grounds to disarm & incarcerate (ahem, involuntary commitment to treatment). Many authoritarian governments have done so to great effect and great harm; ours is heading that way.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#34

Wait, let me guess... As such, they are not allowed to buy weapons, right? How convenient...

This is why we can't have nice firearms. Seriously: I fully support background checks -- extending what we already have, to cover all sales. I also think that if motor vehicles require registration, insurance, and license to operate, then firearms sure as heck should, too. Even so, if I'm being intellectually honest, I also have a twinge of doubt when it comes to "mental health" grounds, and I have some concern about…

I agree with you.

I see the main problem as this: Many people want to keep firearms to keep the power of the government in check, and the government wants to write the rules on who can keep arms. This causes a friction. Either the people give up the right to bear arms and trust the government fully, or the government should not be allowed to make rules on who can keep arms. Anything short of that will continue to cause the friction.

I'm of the opinion that the founders of the United States did not envision a government that people should fully trust, and that mistrust in the government's actions and motives by the populace would actually be healthy for the government. I'm further of the opinion that the founders did not envision a medical profession that could, with a diagnosis and the stroke of a pen, be able to essentially enforce such government full trust, by removing a person's constitutional right to own a firearm, and that without a crime having been committed, and the person not having been convicted of such a crime in a court of law.

If you ask me, that's exactly what the movie Minority Report foretold: "We think you are going to commit a crime, and therefore we will pre-emptively curtail your freedom."

Is this the America the Founding Fathers envisioned when they signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776?

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#35
post #3

I sometimes ask mental health professionals what the converse of Oppositional Defiant Disorder is. At what point do we recognize a disorder in a child who is unnaturally compliant and obedient? No answer so far. I ask because I think I had this. When I was a young prodigy I had the mentality of a performing seal. It's true that some people have difficulty controlling themselves, and they do need help. But the lack of…

> But the lack of symmetry says a lot about how diseases are identified; it is about institutional convenience.

Is it?

I'd chalk it up to the fact that a unnaturally compliant child doesn't tend to cause the parents to seek out treatment, whereas a child who's kicking holes in walls and attacking their siblings does.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#36
post #3

I sometimes ask mental health professionals what the converse of Oppositional Defiant Disorder is. At what point do we recognize a disorder in a child who is unnaturally compliant and obedient? No answer so far. I ask because I think I had this. When I was a young prodigy I had the mentality of a performing seal. It's true that some people have difficulty controlling themselves, and they do need help. But the lack of…

http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/dependent-personal... ?

In fairness, any abnormality defined by evasion of confrontation and dramatic episodes will inevitably attract less attention than the reverse, irrespective of institutional environnment.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#37
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, weren't the people who fought to make America independent upset with the King's Authority? Would you not say, today, that they were anti-authorianists? Would you not say that an oppressive government would use such a "medical condition" to confiscate guns from people who disagreed with it? Think hard about this, and ask yourself what you would have done in 1774: sided with the Revolutionaries, or sided with the…

Take it easy on the rhetoric. No, those founding fathers were not anti-authorianists to the degree that people would call a pathology. The continental congress did not descend into a bunch of bickering every time someone asked someone else to do something. They were mostly, from all reports, pretty well-adjusted and got along with each other civilly even with major disagreements on how to do things.

Except for the shooting and killing of the King's Soldiers at Bunker Hill outside Boston.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#38

I don't like this article's groundless speculation about Albert Einstein, who is used as an unwilling poster child for dozens of causes without support in Einstein's actual biography. I have carefully read Einstein's longest autobiographical writing, and cite it on my personal website, http://learninfreedom.org/Nobel_hates_school.html and while it is indisputable that Einstein blew off some of his school homework, it…

I read two Einstein's biographies and I have come to the conclusion that if he was born today he would probably be a college drop out. Some people say that geniuses always survives life hardships, but the fact that there are no new Einsteins (or Maxwells, Plancks...) seems to show this isn't true.

> Some people say that geniuses always survives life hardships, but the fact that there are no new Einsteins (or Maxwells, Plancks...) seems to show this isn't true.

No new Einsteins, Maxwells, and Plancks?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_in_Phys...

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#39
post #3

I sometimes ask mental health professionals what the converse of Oppositional Defiant Disorder is. At what point do we recognize a disorder in a child who is unnaturally compliant and obedient? No answer so far. I ask because I think I had this. When I was a young prodigy I had the mentality of a performing seal. It's true that some people have difficulty controlling themselves, and they do need help. But the lack of…

"Low self-esteem", sometimes colloquially called "people pleasing" or "being a doormat". A good therapist will recognize this and encourage the child to develop more of their own interests and assert themselves more.

The problem is that a child will not be brought to a therapist for following the rules; only a child who violates rules too frequently will ever see the inside of a psychiatrist's office. A child who always does what they are told will be rewarded, and will likely be rewarded further if their reaction to their rewards is, "What are my next set of instructions?"

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#40
It truly help a lot when you read things like this. I'm 36 years old now, and have learned to live pretty successfully in society.

But as a child that wants to explore and innovate (or for that matter just understand the rules I'm following), it often feels impossible to live in a society that has a rigid set of expectations.

One common refrain from childhood: "If only he would apply himself..." well, of course, I actually applied myself with a focus that would blister the brains of the people who said this sort of thing. But I didn't apply myself to what they wanted.

And that was from the people who even recognized that I had intelligence worthy of any respect. Many had no idea that I was more than troublemaker (a ditch-digger some would say). I suppose it is of relevance that I grew up in a very blue collar environment, and in those environments the expected measure of success is a stable job with routine and predictable pay increases; questioning and understanding is not the path to that, acceptance of the "that's the way it's done" is.

These issues led to a malaise and kind of depression that resulted in me dropping out of school and joining the Marine Corps (yeah, great idea for an "anti-authoritarian", but part of me still believed i was the one with the problem and needed fixing).

The path "back to the world" was a difficult one, and who's to say if that path is even done -- where could I have been. My decisions were poor back then, but hell, I was a teenager and living in a world that didn't support me. Ironically, as I've gained positions of authority over people who themselves are submissive to authority, I think they have a greater respect for me, than they do people who are not innovators or independent thinkers.

I still fight the battle constantly, the white collar corporate world is nearly as unimaginative as the blue collar world -- it's not even about resisting authority, in fact, a good 'authority' is as good as delegating -- someone trusted to do stuff.

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