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Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

motherjones.com

51–60 of 203 posts

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#51
post #27

How can you take such decisions while considering only the purported benefits and not the costs as well? Let's take antimicrobial sprays for example. They presumably protect some consumers from food-borne illnesses. Shouldn't this be balanced against the risk of rashes and such? If say we estimate antimicrobial sprays save a hundred thousand salmonella etc. cases a year at the cost of ten eye irritations, maybe they'…

There are more costs attached to it: Using antimicrobial sprays or antibiotics in abundance tends to create resistant strains and the products enrich in the food chain. The same effect could be created by just using proper hygienic conditions in the slaughterhouse - but that would cost more and require some spoilt food to be trashed - such as the trimmings from beef. Instead it's treated with ammonia and sold as grou…

>The same effect could be created by just using proper hygienic conditions in the slaughterhouse

That's a pretty strong assertion. How did you find out that equivalent hygienic conditions could be created in slaughterhouses at a moderate cost? Aren't antibiotic sprays just getting the germs that got through, despite reasonable precautions being taken?

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#52
HN kicks up an almighty fuss about any attempts to regulate our industry (see online payments, sales taxes, etc.) but we are happy to pass judgement on others.

In Europe we can barely stop people from selling horsemeat as beef. I'm not sure how effectively we are implementing any of these rules, and I'm sure a farmer who wishes to do so can flout them at will.

One positive thing to come from the rise of supermarkets and chains is that their own brands suffer when their suppliers fuck up. They alone have the power to police their producers. And we see this in this article with McD's et al pushing for higher standards.

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#53
post #2

Is there a good way to buy only products that avoid use of these chemicals?

Whole Foods. Whatever else you say about them (or their prices), they've made these issues easy to deal with as a consumer. http://wholefoods.com/about-our-products/quality-standards/a...

Frustratingly (as a frequent Whole Foods shopper), the top of the page raises the question of "What about added hormones and antibiotics?" and then never provides an answer.

Found the answer on another section of the site though: http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/blog/whole-story/our-meat-no...

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#54
post #43
post #8

A reasonably informative article. It must pain HNers in US that if they perceive these items as problems then they have little access to tasty unpasteurized cheeses which would help ease the blows. http://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesForYou/consumers/ucm079516.... I'm from Oz originally, and they unfortunately ban unpasteurized cheese too.

I have no trouble getting access to raw milk cheeses in Chicago.

Would you have trouble if you had a picnic in Wisconsin and forgot to pack some ?

http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/raw_milk_map.htm

simonsarris kindly helped me out ( myself being in the UK )

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#55
post #27

How can you take such decisions while considering only the purported benefits and not the costs as well? Let's take antimicrobial sprays for example. They presumably protect some consumers from food-borne illnesses. Shouldn't this be balanced against the risk of rashes and such? If say we estimate antimicrobial sprays save a hundred thousand salmonella etc. cases a year at the cost of ten eye irritations, maybe they'…

Externalities, unintended consequences.

Regulating for public safety must consider the global view.

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#56
|"You know how arsenic goes inorganic—and thus poisonous—in chickens' guts?"

Correct chemistry but perhaps misleading to non-chemist readers. This is one reason that I oppose product labels advertising "green, organic, natural" products. I cannot help but think that some fickle readers will draw some association between inorganic and poisonous.

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#57
post #8

A reasonably informative article. It must pain HNers in US that if they perceive these items as problems then they have little access to tasty unpasteurized cheeses which would help ease the blows. http://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesForYou/consumers/ucm079516.... I'm from Oz originally, and they unfortunately ban unpasteurized cheese too.

The FDA banned interstate commerce of unpasteurized milk products (except cheeses aged past 60 days). This means that companies cannot produce unpasteurized products in one state to sell in others.

However, despite the interstate commerce ban, some 29ish states have various states of unpasteurized sales, ranging from allowing it in grocery stores to only allowing it to be sold from the farms.

In my state, raw milk products cannot be sold at grocery stores except where allowed by federal law (cheeses past 60 days).

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#58
post #6

The flipside of this are things like the banana regulation, more commonly known as Commission Regulation (EC) No 2257/94.[1] I believe it's now rescinded under ridicule but there are people who try to deny it even existed. It's well worth reading in full on eur-lex for riveting prose like "the measurement, in millimetres, of the thickness of a transverse section of the fruit between the lateral faces and the middle,…

For context, you always have to keep in mind why those laws exist.

What is the goal that is towering above all else for the EU? The one it has actually been relatively successfully implemented? Creating a common market, of course!

For a common market to exist it is obviously not enough to open up the borders to people, labor, goods and capital. It is also necessary to have common rules and regulations for the goods and services sold throughout the common market. If that weren't the case, individual countries could easily erect trade barriers between them (through rules that are mutually exclusive, e.g. so that a Spanish manufacturer of wine harvesters can't export her Spanish harvesters to France, at least not without massively changing the production process and in essence opening two manufacturing lines, one for Spain, one for France).

So the EU parliament gets this stack of laws on fruits from 27 countries and is told to turn that into one unified law for the whole of the EU. That's basically what's happing. The EU is not so much in the business of making new regulations, it very often just unifies.

Now, it's important to stay vigilant throughout this and pay attention and tell the EU when it screws up, but I do not see any kind of systemic issue. I think it all works pretty well for what it is.

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#59
post #13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your comment about "right to make certain types of sausages" refers to the various protections around food actually coming from a particular area I actually think that is a good thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_indications_and_t... After all (to pick an example from the news today) - if something is described as "Stornoway Black Pudding" I'd like to believe it actually came from Stornoway: http://…

If it is exactly the same besides the origin, why does it matter?

It's rarely "exactly the same". Champagne made in France and Feta made in Greece has specific ingredients, requirements etc, defined by law.

In places where those laws don't apply, they make cheap knockoffs with different ingredients mix, laxer process etc, to sell cheaply. Danish or American feta, for example, is nothing like actual feta. At least Denmark cannot name it "Feta", whereas US companies can, thus misleading the consumer.

Second, even in cases where it's exactly the same, it's a "point of origin" protection, meant to protect the original region that made the product.

The same way that BK cannot name one of their burgers "The Big Mac", but for a whole region/country, not just one private company.

Re: Food Practices Banned in Europe But Allowed in the US

#60
post #6

The flipside of this are things like the banana regulation, more commonly known as Commission Regulation (EC) No 2257/94.[1] I believe it's now rescinded under ridicule but there are people who try to deny it even existed. It's well worth reading in full on eur-lex for riveting prose like "the measurement, in millimetres, of the thickness of a transverse section of the fruit between the lateral faces and the middle,…

> "the measurement, in millimetres, of the thickness of a transverse section of the fruit between the lateral faces and the middle, perpendicularly to the longitudinal axis"

Oh, look, a good definition in a legal document. Don’t people normally complain about ambiguous laws leaving interpretation open to the courts[0]?

> Regulations over the official ingredients of jam

So that consumers can buy jam everywhere in the EU and get more-or-less the same rather than (possibly annoying) surprises. The problem here arose because the word ‘jam’ (or more precisely, ‘marmelade’) was used differently in different parts of the EU prior to regularisation. I am happy about it.

> battles over who has the right to make certain types of sausages

Everybody can make any type of sausage, what they cannot do is claim that said sausage was made somewhere else. What exactly do you find unreasonable about that?

> It's harder for legal systems other than the common law because of the way they work but I'm of the opinion that we should at least trial putting a word count limit on the total body of law and regulation.

So you prefer to have such regulation spread not only over a defined body of laws but also over each and every court decision made within the last n hundred years? On the contrary, I would argue that civil law is inherently superior to common law, as it puts the legislation where it belongs (the legislative, i.e. parliament, and, by extension, the various ministries) and gives consumers and businesses security that, if they follow said legislation, they have a reasonable chance of doing everything correctly, rather than having to take into account court decisions on the other side of the country or hope that the court in question will invent new laws according to the way they want, rather than their legal opponents.

There is absolutely no reason to impose a total word count limit on the body of laws. There is a reason to keep that body of law reasonably organised, accurate and easily understandable, which is usually the case, and more so in the EU than the US (otherwise, legal fees would be much higher in the EU, as people would require more help understanding the law, right?).

> A more depressing tale of regulatory woe, given the rocketing suicides and unemployment in Greece, is that of the bookstore/café that can't sell coffee and frequently can't sell books.[3]

Well, that’s what you get for becoming less and less competitive and instead extending bureaucracy more and more to accommodate more and more public officers, paid for by cheap credits, assumed to be backed by more sanely operating economies. Greece’s fault, you could only blame the EU for allowing them in.

[0] Or are you just annoyed that this is measured in millimetres rather than imperial attolightfortnights or similarly ridiculous unit?

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