Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware • Hacker News Board

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#41

Post by Spooky23 » Wed, May 08, 2013, 2:57 PM UTC

A big part of the perception problem is that gangs have spread out or have left the larger urban environments in favor of smaller cities and suburbs with no resources.

So people see gang activity in places like Albany, NY or Springfield, MA or some suburb in Tennessee and hear about 15 year old gang members carrying handguns. They associate that real social problem with the tools that they are carrying.

That combined with pandering politicians and advocacy group funded PR efforts that land gun related incidents on the TV everyday leads to the present situation.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#42

Post by bluedino » Wed, May 08, 2013, 2:57 PM UTC

Yet, cities like Chicago and Flint are setting new records for homicide rates, and the % of those committed by guns is at an all-time high.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#43

Post by jeffdavis » Wed, May 08, 2013, 2:57 PM UTC

balloot wrote: post #14

In a totally and completely unrelated fact, the rate of gun ownership is also down 30% since the 1980's. It's almost as if the two may have a relationship, but that certainly cannot be the case because the NRA has spent a jillion dollars telling me otherwise!

That's interesting, because someone else pointed out a large increase in the total number of guns. Can you provide a link for that figure?

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#44

Post by dsr_ » Wed, May 08, 2013, 2:58 PM UTC

Terretta wrote: post #10

dmix wrote: post #2

Also ALL violent crime is down 50% since 1993. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooa98FHuaU0 Fear is a powerful weapon. The media and politicians know this and selectively choose which crime stats to promote. Emotional outrage > rational analysis when it comes to selling pageviews and building political support. That is nothing new. Fortunately the internet is helping to temper that imbalance.

> selectively choose which crime stats to promote For example, FBI homicide stats last year show 350 killed by rifles of any kind, assault or otherwise, while 750 killed by hammers. I keep waiting for the groundswell of public support for hammer control.

Which stats are you looking at? The 2012 UCR isn't out yet, and the 2011 stats show 323 by rifles, 457 by "blunt objects" which includes but is not limited to hammers. There haven't been 750 people killed in homicides by blunt objects in 2007 through 2011.

However, "firearms, type not stated" is 1587.

Source: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/c...

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#45

Post by ebbv » Wed, May 08, 2013, 2:58 PM UTC

Of course it is. All violent crime is down.

That has nothing to do with the fact that kids are still accidentally getting shot.

I propose a new law; if a child (under 18) is found in possession of a gun the gun owner is fined $50,000. If the gun's ownership cannot be established, the parents or legal guardians are fined $50,000 instead.

People might be a little more serious about locking up their guns and not letting their kids play with them.

Dumb parents never seemed to be scared of their kids accidentally shooting each other but and one of them dies, maybe they'd be scared of them accidentally shooting each other and owing $50,000.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#46

Post by shawabawa3 » Wed, May 08, 2013, 2:58 PM UTC

Terretta wrote: post #10

dmix wrote: post #2

Also ALL violent crime is down 50% since 1993. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooa98FHuaU0 Fear is a powerful weapon. The media and politicians know this and selectively choose which crime stats to promote. Emotional outrage > rational analysis when it comes to selling pageviews and building political support. That is nothing new. Fortunately the internet is helping to temper that imbalance.

> selectively choose which crime stats to promote For example, FBI homicide stats last year show 350 killed by rifles of any kind, assault or otherwise, while 750 killed by hammers. I keep waiting for the groundswell of public support for hammer control.

Deaths by handguns in US 2011: 6,220 [1]

Most people aren't really bothered by rifles (which are mostly used for hunting), but handguns (which really have no purpose except killing humans)

[1] http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/c...

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#47

Post by Prophasi » Wed, May 08, 2013, 2:59 PM UTC

grimtrigger wrote: post #15

Please keep the politics out of HN. Edit: Referring to some of the comments in this thread, not the article.

I'd argue this is up to the folks commenting rather than the OP, which is a link to some polling that produced a bunch of data points. It can be strictly analytical without blowing up into petty arguments.

Not that it will.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#48

Post by davidw » Wed, May 08, 2013, 2:59 PM UTC

mrchucklepants wrote: post #37

grimtrigger wrote: post #15

Please keep the politics out of HN. Edit: Referring to some of the comments in this thread, not the article.

I fail to see how review and discussion of statistical information equates to politics. Facts are not political.

You really can't see that? Do you think there's the odd chance the ensuing discussion might - just might - deviate from the discussion of some numbers?

My inclination is that we will see yet another reenactment of a famous internet flame war.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#49

Post by emc » Wed, May 08, 2013, 3:00 PM UTC

spwestwood wrote: post #20

SuperFreakonomics attributed the dramatic drop in crime in the 1990s to Roe vs Wade. http://www.freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/abortion-and-crime-wh...

That's mostly likely a factor but 100% of the story. The decrease of lead in soil is another. http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-li...

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#50

Post by jstalin » Wed, May 08, 2013, 3:00 PM UTC

scottkduncan wrote: post #34

jstalin wrote: post #8

The drop is all the more remarkable considering that there are at least 168,000,000 more guns in circulation in the US now than when gun homicide peaked in 1993.[1] [1]: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/1998_2013_sta...

"These statistics represent the number of firearm background checks initiated through the NICS. They do not represent the number of firearms sold. Based on varying state laws and purchase scenarios, a one-to-one correlation cannot be made between a firearm background check and a firearm sale." I imagine the total's quite a bit lower than the stated figure since many of these background checks would be for transfers a…

Also keep in mind that one background check may represent the sale of several firearms.

One additional data point - nearly 9 million guns were manufactured or imported into the US in 2010 alone: http://www.businessinsider.com/more-gun-stores-in-america-th...