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You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

42floors.com

81–90 of 111 posts

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#81

The thing about morning people is you just can't trust them, because a part of them will always believe that night people are lazy; they just can't get over it, no matter how rationally you explain your situation. And you can't trust people like that, because they'll never understand the difference between something they just happen to like or believe and something that is universally Right, Good, and True. To them t…

Heh, people look at me sideways for leaving at 430 when I'm in at 7. You might time people can't be trusted because we never know when you've gone home :). (Said in complete jest, of course)

Of course the same can be said for morning people, we never know when you arrived !

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#82
post #23

You don't have to feel guilty, but you still might get fired. Jason Freedman answers only to shareholders, not a boss, which is why he can decide whether he feels guilty or not.

Not sure where you work, but I negotiate my hours just the same as the rest of my compensation package. 8-9am start time? That'll be an extra $10K-20K/year. Same for dress code, etc.

dress code ? do you have a farting and ball scratching package too ?

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Too many people think that a "condition" frees them from all personal responsibility.

I agree, I do have sympathy for someone really suffering from a condition, but they must be open about it and make their life work. Maybe that means treatment or just a honest conversation with their employer or both. What really bothers me is: Sleepy Hacker: "I get shitfaced every night and go to bed at 2 AM. I can't seem to get up at 7:30 AM for work ever! I set like 5 alarms! I must have Delayed Sleep Phase Disord…

> a honest conversation with their employer

Sucker.

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#84
post #3

I started working at a small startup in January. With the team as small as it is, the working hours are very flexible -- if I make it into the office at 10:00, I'm usually the first one there. Since I had the luxury, I did something that I want to wholeheartedly recommend to anyone who can: I stopped using an alarm clock. I'm a "night owl". I tend to have trouble sleeping before midnight, and often stay up later than…

I've never used an alarm clock. Until I was about 24 I could be up till 2 and still get up by 5 easily. Around that time, I started having more and more trouble getting up early. I would still get up around 8-9, but not before. Also, around that time I started drinking coffee.

So... I have zero clue how or why, but I recently stopped drinking coffee and I'm back to 7 being late for me. It is a good feeling. More than a bit of a shame, though, as I do like the taste of coffee.

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I'd call it "too early" when it was the norm for most of human existence. Sleep at sunset, wake at dawn, enjoy some nocturnal activity mid night. Artificial lighting hasn't been around all that long, yet we have forgotten what natural lighting means for sleep cycles.

In Seattle, the amount of time the sun is in the sky varies from 8.5 hours to 16 hours across the year. Do you believe we really need 15 hours of sleep in the winter, but can get by on barely 8 in the summer? I don't think our sleep schedules need to vary THAT much for seasonal disaffectance.

> Do you believe we really need 15 hours of sleep in the winter, but can get by on barely 8 in the summer?

Yes, inasmuch as we "need" sleep at all. There are many species that dramatically shift their sleeping patterns over the course of the year--such as never sleeping during months-long migrations--and come out with no "sleep debt" accrued at all. This lends to a conclusion that the brain really just requests a certain amount of sleep, and is unhappy if it doesn't get it--but it can request less sleep in the first place with no physiological effect.

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#86
post #49

Melatonin works for me. Unless you have DSPS, I cannot tell you how amazing it is for the alarm to go off at 7:30, once, and to be able to get out of bed. It has changed my life. I take my girls to school. I check email before 8. At the weekends I can lie in till 10 and its a real lie in, not a normal weekday.

+1. Exact same situation here - started taking melatonin on the advice of my doctor, and it completely changed my morning routine (so long as I actually take it and go to bed about 7-8 hours before I wake up - it's not magic, and doesn't let me go to bed at 1am and wake up at 5am, but does let me go to bed at 10pm and wake up at 5am).

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where you work, but I negotiate my hours just the same as the rest of my compensation package. 8-9am start time? That'll be an extra $10K-20K/year. Same for dress code, etc.

dress code ? do you have a farting and ball scratching package too ?

How you feel about it is irrelevant; what matters are the desires of the employer and employee, and what they're willing to trade.

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, I do have sympathy for someone really suffering from a condition, but they must be open about it and make their life work. Maybe that means treatment or just a honest conversation with their employer or both. What really bothers me is: Sleepy Hacker: "I get shitfaced every night and go to bed at 2 AM. I can't seem to get up at 7:30 AM for work ever! I set like 5 alarms! I must have Delayed Sleep Phase Disord…

> a honest conversation with their employer Sucker.

Have you considered finding a better employer? They exist.

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#89
post #3

I started working at a small startup in January. With the team as small as it is, the working hours are very flexible -- if I make it into the office at 10:00, I'm usually the first one there. Since I had the luxury, I did something that I want to wholeheartedly recommend to anyone who can: I stopped using an alarm clock. I'm a "night owl". I tend to have trouble sleeping before midnight, and often stay up later than…

> It took me about a month at to sleep off my debt. I am pretty sure you didn't "sleep off your debt". Sleep debt is something you easily recover right away, just by sleeping until you wake naturally. What you did was to shift your circadian phase. The circadian phase is usually measured by the nadir point of the core body temperature rhythm [1] (apparently the better measurement is of the "endogenous melatonin rhyth…

Actually, studies from multiple sources prove that sleep debt is a real thing:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/health/03real.html?_r=0

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/26/nyregion/the-high-cost-of-...

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#90
3 years ago I could no longer fall asleep before 5am and it was severely affecting my ability to concentrate, which as a software engineer is a death knell. Like most, I internalize my problems, exacerbating my frustration, worsening sleep, and creating a negative feedback loop.

Today, I sleep like a baby, and it's INCREDIBLY EASY to fix. Follow these steps, and you'll never have difficulty falling asleep again:

1. Melatonin [1]

Melatonin is how your body knows when it's time to go to sleep. It's produced naturally, but with DSPD (Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder), by definition it occurs later than it should. Taking melatonin an hour before you go to sleep is like a hard reset. I can't overstate this enough. It doesn't matter how much blue light or caffeine you've taken (for the most part) during the day, or how stressed you are, if you take 9mg of melatonin, you'll fall asleep in an hour. Period. Eventually, with some of the below, you can achieve the same affect with 1mg, and once you establish a regular schedule you'll no longer require it at all.

2. Wake Light [2]

A natural sun alarm clock. If you get enough sleep (easy once the melatonin ensures you fall asleep on time), waking up to one of these is a breeze (and a joy).

3. Avoid Blue Light

Same thing as the article states, avoid it. Computers, iPhone, etc...

4. Cold shower [3]

It drops your body temperature and moves your blood away from your prefrontal cortex to your core alleviating your mind from racing.

5. Earplugs [4,5]

My dogs feat clitter clatter across our hard wood floors. My wife wakes up before me. Our house creeks. etc.... Occasionally I also use an eye cover, but it's less impactful.

6. Socks & t-shirt [6]

They help regulate body temperature.

7. Obey Your Sleep Cycles [7]

Our bodies have natural sleep cycles (90m for the first, ~110m for the 2-3rd). When my alarm clock goes off, and I still feel sleepy, I roll over with my eyes facing my wake light and effectively snooze until I feel awake. Eventually the combination of white light and the conclusion of my sleep cycle, leave me feeling awake and alert.

8. Sleep alarm

In my experience, it's been more important for me to set an alarm at night (9:45) to start getting ready for bed, than to set one in the morning. Having a regular sleep schedule allows you to work with your body instead of against it. If you're having trouble sleeping, or you anticipate having trouble, take melatonin until your body starts to adapt to your new schedule and it's no longer necessary.

9. Relax

1 hour before your sleep alarm you should be doing something relaxing. It won't matter if when your sleep alarm goes off, you're running around busily doing things. I make sure I'm doing something relaxing like watching TV or reading a book in bed for at least an hour before my sleep alarm goes off.

10. iPhone Wakeup

One thing that helps wake me up on those difficult mornings is to crank the brightness on my iPhone and sit and read a few articles. The white light naturally tells my body it's time to start the day, and eventually I don't mind waking up.

Life is so much better now that I can count on fantastic sleep every night!

[1] http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/tc/melatonin-overview

[2] http://www.amazon.com/Philips-Hf3470-Wake-up-Light-White/dp/...

[3] https://www.google.com/search?q=cold+shower+before+sleeping

[4] http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0068HC0X4/ref=oh_details_o...

[5] http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H7MMP2/ref=oh_details_o...

[6] http://lifehacker.com/wear-socks-to-fall-asleep-easily-47655...

[7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep#cite_ref-17

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