Iron Ring • Hacker News Board

Re: Iron Ring

#141

Post by nrivadeneira » Tue, May 07, 2013, 9:08 PM UTC

stephencanon wrote: post #126

nrivadeneira wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As far as levers and bolts go, a lot of them have sensors monitored by software for stress." That's in the far minority of situations. As part of my ME curriculum, I've worked with these types of sensors. It's very rare you'll find them monitoring bolts and levers. It's true that software is extremely pervasive, however I believe you're overestimating the critical nature of it in most applications. Cars, bridges, bu…

> Most critical failure points are mechanical. Given that many mechanical and structural components are designed with the assistance of software that analyzes the stresses they are subjected to (and sometimes little or no analysis is performed beyond software simulation), one might question if it’s even possible to underestimate the role of software.

You make an excellent point. Though I think that the 'responsibility of an engineer' that is discussed in regards to the Iron Ring relates to it. It's up to the engineer to ensure that his design is sound regardless of any other factors.

Re: Iron Ring

#142

Post by VLM » Tue, May 07, 2013, 9:14 PM UTC

theg5prank wrote: post #53

sergiotapia wrote: post #34

Is there something like this for Software developers? We make the world go round and round; shouldn't we also have something this beautiful?

I think you may be missing the point. These rings are given to graduating engineers not as a beautiful object of congratulations for their achievements, but as a token designed to remind them of the burden they have taken on.

Ah so the IT equivalent would be something like a ceremonial pager duty model or something?

Re: Iron Ring

#143

Post by damoncali » Tue, May 07, 2013, 9:16 PM UTC

gknoy wrote: post #121

larrydag wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a licensed Professional Engineer I worry about the state of engineering in the US. I feel the word "engineer" is diluted to mean any job that requires technical know-how. Yet there are important ethical considerations if one practices as an engineer. I wish the true engineering professions could have the "Engineer" title differentiated from these other technical professions but it looks like it won't happen anytim…

For those of us who are not Engineers, can you elaborate (or point us to more info) on the Important Ethical Considerations? I've always struggled to explain why programming is not engineering.

As a programmer who was once an engineer by trade, I would say the difference is that engineering implies manipulation of the pysical sciences, where programming is just logic.

Re: Iron Ring

#144

Post by proland » Tue, May 07, 2013, 9:20 PM UTC

napoleond wrote: post #107

proland wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is illegal to wear the ring in any fashion if you are not a practicing engineer (as you should have been told when you were obligated).

"Illegal" is probably the wrong word to use here, since the iron ring is not governed by any municipal, provincial, or federal law. I have a B.Sc. EE and yet work mostly in web/mobile software. I don't consider or present myself as a "practicing engineer" but I still wear the ring as a reminder of the obligation I have towards anything I create for other people to use. I probably wouldn't give it to my girlfriend to…

Actually it is the right word. The ring is a registered symbol of the Corporation of the Seven Wardens, and wearing or displaying one without their permission (via having been obligated) or attempting to sell one is illegal in exactly the same way that using any other entity's trademark without their permission is illegal.

That said, if you've been obligated and are working in a technical field, but don't really consider yourself an 'engineer' you can still wear it, so long as you hold yourself to the values it represents.

Re: Iron Ring

#145

Post by proland » Tue, May 07, 2013, 9:20 PM UTC

amackera wrote: post #128

proland wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is illegal to wear the ring in any fashion if you are not a practicing engineer (as you should have been told when you were obligated).

That is not true. The iron ring has nothing to do with the law.

The ring is a registered symbol of the Corporation of the Seven Wardens, and wearing or displaying one without their permission (via having been obligated) or attempting to sell one is illegal in exactly the same way that using any other entity's trademark without their permission is illegal.

Re: Iron Ring

#146

Post by Anderkent » Tue, May 07, 2013, 10:08 PM UTC

kruhft wrote: post #124

ars wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you never need an MRI. It really doesn't come off?

I guess it could be cut off if I really needed to :) But other than that, no it doesn't come off. You tend to gain weight as you get older, even on your fingers.

Shouldn't you get it adjusted then? I'd be afraid of losing the finger if it gets too tight.

Re: Iron Ring

#147

Post by grumps » Tue, May 07, 2013, 10:53 PM UTC

gknoy wrote: post #121

larrydag wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a licensed Professional Engineer I worry about the state of engineering in the US. I feel the word "engineer" is diluted to mean any job that requires technical know-how. Yet there are important ethical considerations if one practices as an engineer. I wish the true engineering professions could have the "Engineer" title differentiated from these other technical professions but it looks like it won't happen anytim…

For those of us who are not Engineers, can you elaborate (or point us to more info) on the Important Ethical Considerations? I've always struggled to explain why programming is not engineering.

Typically there's a subtle difference in courses taken.

For example - at my school Comp Sci were allowed to take physics for physics majors instead of physics for engineers. For both electromagnetic physics and mechanical physics. Typically most engineers are required to take some courses in the some basic courses, ie Dynamics, Statics, and others depending on your major. This all assumes that your ABET accredited. Maybe it's because I don't see an accrediting agency/society. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABET#Members

Re: Iron Ring

#148

Post by jonny_eh » Tue, May 07, 2013, 10:57 PM UTC

rom16384 wrote: post #139

jonny_eh wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's ferromagnetic.

Iron is ferromagnetic.

I was thinking of the stainless steel version, but looking that up looks like the answer is "depends". Depends on the definition of "magnetic" (since all materials are to a degree) and the type of stainless steel.

I just noticed that my own "iron" ring (which is stainless steel) doesn't seem to respond to typical magnets you'd find around the office.

Clearly _iron_ is though, considering it's the element with the symbol "Fe" which is short for Ferrum.

Re: Iron Ring

#149

Post by d0c5 » Tue, May 07, 2013, 11:28 PM UTC

My father has one, I saw it many years ago and never knew what it meant, if anything. Thanks man!

Re: Iron Ring

#150

Post by ars » Tue, May 07, 2013, 11:29 PM UTC

jonny_eh wrote: post #148

rom16384 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iron is ferromagnetic.

I was thinking of the stainless steel version, but looking that up looks like the answer is "depends". Depends on the definition of "magnetic" (since all materials are to a degree) and the type of stainless steel. I just noticed that my own "iron" ring (which is stainless steel) doesn't seem to respond to typical magnets you'd find around the office. Clearly _iron_ is though, considering it's the element with the sym…

Usually (but not always) higher quality stainless steel is not magnetic, while the lower quality is slightly magnetic.

However even slightly magnetic can be a problem in an MRI - and worse, there is no practical way for the MRI tech to tell how the stainless steel will act, so they will err on the side of caution.