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Go ahead, pass the Internet tax. Your (foreign) competitors thank you.

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Re: Go ahead, pass the Internet tax. Your (foreign) competitors thank you.

#31

Post by tmuir »

Essentially, the article is saying that if you could save money by buying a physical product from a foreign country, domestic businesses would suffer.

Those conditions exist today with the ability to buy things from China, and all of the accompanying downsides will apply to buying something from Europe. It takes weeks instead of days to ship overseas at acceptable rates. Who do you call to complain/return/get service? Do they even speak English? Does this product meet safety standards? Do I even have legal standing to sue the company if I am defrauded/injured?

All of these go away buying domestically, and are not a fair trade off for a marginally lower price.

Re: Go ahead, pass the Internet tax. Your (foreign) competitors thank you.

#32

Post by dclowd9901 »

coldtea wrote: post #22

> What lawmakers fail to understand is that taxation specific to the internet, ostensibly to boost revenues into government coffers, in practice will probably diminish them as US businesses lose competitiveness against foreign companies. And what you fail to understand is that if everything is sacrificed in the name of "competitiveness", then every country will be in a race for the bottom. It already happens, with ou…

The world, sir, will get along just fine as the US slinks into its sunset years. As an American citizen, I can assure you the writing is, and has been, on the wall.

Re: Go ahead, pass the Internet tax. Your (foreign) competitors thank you.

#33

Post by larrys »

ajross wrote: post #27
dangrossman wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would the US government mandate a non-US business do anything? They can't prohibit US citizens from buying from these companies without violating their own free-trade agreements. That'd be a bad idea, since 41% of the country's exports go to countries we've signed those treaties with.

I guess there's the open question of forcing foreign agents to collect and report IRS-friendly numbers. But it's not like taxing of import items is a new idea or a controversial one. The US government has been collecting duties for as long as it has existed.

"But it's not like taxing of import items is a new idea or a controversial one"

Different. You have to get those goods by customs.

Re: Go ahead, pass the Internet tax. Your (foreign) competitors thank you.

#34

Post by dangrossman »

fryguy wrote: post #24
dangrossman wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's saying that individuals that sell online shouldn't be taxed by state legislators they didn't elect. Congress won't be setting the internet sales tax rates, nor administering the tax, nor conducting its audits -- the 50 individual states will be imposing their individual rules.

It's the person that's paying for the product being taxed, and the merchant is merely collecting that tax. At least, that would be my interpretation.

If a foreign state I've never stepped foot in can set laws I have to obey, force me to remit money to them, and audit my accounting under penalty of imprisonment, it doesn't really matter who's doing the paying. Today, only people within the state can be forced to obey and be audited by that state. This bill gives the power for a state to create and enforce arbitrary laws on non-citizens. It's at least a sufficiently different situation to debate.

Boy would I prefer a single federal sales tax with the fed doing the distribution to the individual states.

Re: Go ahead, pass the Internet tax. Your (foreign) competitors thank you.

#35

Post by tss20147 »

Svip wrote: post #8

I am slightly bemused by the fact that the US - which in Europe is often seen as very lax on taxes - is doing this and it is not even being considered in Europe. That might change, sure, but Europeans tend to like taxing things. And if this haven't even made a consideration among European lawmakers, just how far from the pack have the US lawmakers gone?

The author and you are confused. There is no internet specific tax being discussed in the US. The "Internet tax" bill just allows states to require companies to collect state sales tax when they sell an item to someone in the state. This is the same tax which is collected by brick and mortar stores within the state. Currently if I buy items online each year when filing my state taxes by law I must declare the value of my online purchases and pay the sales tax on them. As you can guess many people don't declare the purchases as required. The "Internet tax" bill is really a bill to change allowed tax collection methods to ensure that all currently applicable taxes are collected.

Re: Go ahead, pass the Internet tax. Your (foreign) competitors thank you.

#36

Post by dclowd9901 »

rayiner wrote: post #25

I must have missed the memo. Why are we ranting and raving about collecting sales tax on internet purchases? Is there some other internet tax I'm not aware of?

A federal law is in process right now to guarantee states' rights to collect tax on cross-state purchases. As of yet, it's been spotty.

Re: Go ahead, pass the Internet tax. Your (foreign) competitors thank you.

#37

Post by err_badprocrast »

davidw wrote: post #5

This tax could make Oregonian consumers pretty popular: nothing to collect, no tax, no hassle.

Oregon [Senator] Jeff Merkley said he voted no "because the citizens of Oregon have said nine times that we don’t want our families or small businesses burdened with sales taxes."

"It’s a regressive tax. It’s an inefficient tax," he said. "And this bill would force our Oregon retailers to collect this regressive, inefficient tax for other states and municipalities. That is just wrong. I hope the House does the right thing and stops this legislation from trampling on Oregon small businesses.” [1]

The other Oregon Senator (Ron Wyden) was one of the co-authors of the 1998 Internet Tax Freedom Act[2] and is similarly opposed to this bill.

"Today the senate is voting to take a few more inches off the little guy," said Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR), who has fought the bill hard. "You saw ads taken out by some of the biggest businesses in the country. It's easy to see why, Mr. President. With this vote, what you have is big businesses being given the ability to force new regulations onto the start-ups, onto the small businesses."[3]

1. http://www.ktvz.com/news/wyden-merkley-vote-no-on-internet-s...

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tax_Freedom_Act

3. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/05/senate-passes-int...

EDIT: don't forget to send a message to your house representative at https://house.gov/ if you haven't already.

Re: Go ahead, pass the Internet tax. Your (foreign) competitors thank you.

#38

Post by belorn »

> What will probably happen is that affected businesses will have to "eat" the tax and drive their margins down...

Or e-commers will do what they always have done when legislation change. They "move" their cloudy servers to somewhere where said laws do not exist.

We saw this exact thing each time EU passed some new data privacy law. People stayed in their country, but the servers suddenly poped up in NA, or Ireland, or some small Caribbean island that no one has heard of. Trying to enforce taxes or privacy laws on e-businesses is like trying to shut down the Pirate Bay. It simply moves on to a new IP under the same domain name.

Re: Go ahead, pass the Internet tax. Your (foreign) competitors thank you.

#40

Post by dangrossman »

rayiner wrote: post #25

I must have missed the memo. Why are we ranting and raving about collecting sales tax on internet purchases? Is there some other internet tax I'm not aware of?

Yes, the "internet sales tax bill" (marketplace fairness act) passed the Senate this week. It has White House support, so only needs to pass the House to become law.

A summary: http://www.dangrossman.info/2013/04/24/what-startups-need-to...

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