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Traffic From Syria Disappears From Internet

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Re: Traffic From Syria Disappears From Internet

#11

Post by mindslight »

cookiecaper wrote: post #6
venomsnake wrote: post #4

There is civil war. And cables will always be delicious target for any party. No bank transfers for the fleeing elite or being able to deal with external affairs, total blackout for the defender (military and police have their own systems usually so the ruling party is not that affected) The situation in Syria is dangerous. A failed state in that location ... Arab Peninsula in the 2013 is the Balkans in 1913 ...

And this is what bitcoiners and similar don't understand. It's not like your internet connection will remain happy and stable while the rest of the world goes to hell around us. Telecomms will be a first-class target, and most systems have some pretty central points of failure that would make juicy (and easy) targets. In such a situation, if you've chosen to use an electronic cryptocurrency dependent on things like r…

> the blockchain depends on a consistent, global view of network transactions

Actually the chief effect of the continual hashing is robustness against netsplits. By defining the longer-hashed chain as prevailing, global reconciliation is actually possible. All protocol-following parties agree - double spends on the smaller side lose out.

Re: Traffic From Syria Disappears From Internet

#13

Post by 3am »

BCM43 wrote: post #7
cookiecaper wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is what bitcoiners and similar don't understand. It's not like your internet connection will remain happy and stable while the rest of the world goes to hell around us. Telecomms will be a first-class target, and most systems have some pretty central points of failure that would make juicy (and easy) targets. In such a situation, if you've chosen to use an electronic cryptocurrency dependent on things like r…

What would you suggest people put their money in then? Gold? Guns? The problems you describe are problems for just about every currency right now. How much of your money do you have in cash, and how much is in the bank? Do you think you will still be able to use the bank in a situation like the one you describe?

Gold and guns would both be much better decisions that Bitcoin in a raging civil war. So would food, and transport to safe haven. Bitcoin would be insane. Even if you had extra money, that's what Swiss bank accounts are for.

edit: to be clear, the utilities of these items is relative, think a DAG. gold > bitcoin. food > gold. transport to safe haven > food,guns. Maybe. Medicine > gold, also. Not trying to say anything special about gold, I mostly agree that it has very little use to justify its value.

Re: Traffic From Syria Disappears From Internet

#14

Post by CamperBob2 »

cookiecaper wrote: post #6
venomsnake wrote: post #4

There is civil war. And cables will always be delicious target for any party. No bank transfers for the fleeing elite or being able to deal with external affairs, total blackout for the defender (military and police have their own systems usually so the ruling party is not that affected) The situation in Syria is dangerous. A failed state in that location ... Arab Peninsula in the 2013 is the Balkans in 1913 ...

And this is what bitcoiners and similar don't understand. It's not like your internet connection will remain happy and stable while the rest of the world goes to hell around us. Telecomms will be a first-class target, and most systems have some pretty central points of failure that would make juicy (and easy) targets. In such a situation, if you've chosen to use an electronic cryptocurrency dependent on things like r…

In such a situation, if you've chosen to use an electronic cryptocurrency dependent on things like robust network and electrical infrastructure to function as your primary value store, you're going to have a bad time.

Yes, clearly, it's better in all cases to use paper fiat currency dependent on things like a robust, modern, well-defended, and rationally-operated government infrastructure to function as your primary value store.

Re: Traffic From Syria Disappears From Internet

#15

Post by Anderkent »

Jabbles wrote: post #10
Lambdanaut wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) We're heading closer and closer to a world where none of this bullshit(pardon my Frank) can happen. 2) You think REGULAR currencies have much more value than cryptocurrencies during these types of crises? 3) If Syria hypothetically still has a working "intranet" but not a working "internet", then Bitcoin will continue working just fine for them while they're not connected to the rest of us. After the Syrians re-co…

Re-merging does not work like that. All Syrian transactions will effectively be reversed. That's assuming that they managed to mine anything, with such a small fraction of the usual computing power available.

The difficulty level adjusts to the mining power. And only transactions that were double-spent will be reversed, since nodes will re-broadcast transactions from the short chain onto the long chain, and those that weren't double spent will be accepted.

Re: Traffic From Syria Disappears From Internet

#16

Post by greghinch »

3am wrote: post #13
BCM43 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you suggest people put their money in then? Gold? Guns? The problems you describe are problems for just about every currency right now. How much of your money do you have in cash, and how much is in the bank? Do you think you will still be able to use the bank in a situation like the one you describe?

Gold and guns would both be much better decisions that Bitcoin in a raging civil war. So would food, and transport to safe haven. Bitcoin would be insane. Even if you had extra money, that's what Swiss bank accounts are for. edit: to be clear, the utilities of these items is relative, think a DAG. gold > bitcoin. food > gold. transport to safe haven > food,guns. Maybe. Medicine > gold, also. Not trying to say anythin…

I don't get this obsession with gold. Yes it's shiny and has historically represented value and wealth, but people apply it as the unit of currency society will fall back on in times of crisis, like a civil war. If there's fighting and chaos all around and infrastructure is cut off, clean water, food, medicine, and weapons are pretty much all that will hold any value.

Re: Traffic From Syria Disappears From Internet

#17

Post by daniel-cussen »

cookiecaper wrote: post #6
venomsnake wrote: post #4

There is civil war. And cables will always be delicious target for any party. No bank transfers for the fleeing elite or being able to deal with external affairs, total blackout for the defender (military and police have their own systems usually so the ruling party is not that affected) The situation in Syria is dangerous. A failed state in that location ... Arab Peninsula in the 2013 is the Balkans in 1913 ...

And this is what bitcoiners and similar don't understand. It's not like your internet connection will remain happy and stable while the rest of the world goes to hell around us. Telecomms will be a first-class target, and most systems have some pretty central points of failure that would make juicy (and easy) targets. In such a situation, if you've chosen to use an electronic cryptocurrency dependent on things like r…

You can memorize the keys to a bitcoin account and carry your wealth with you in your head until you get to a place with an internet connection. Better that than diamonds in tubes of toothpaste.

Re: Traffic From Syria Disappears From Internet

#18

Post by jmathai »

greghinch wrote: post #16
3am wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold and guns would both be much better decisions that Bitcoin in a raging civil war. So would food, and transport to safe haven. Bitcoin would be insane. Even if you had extra money, that's what Swiss bank accounts are for. edit: to be clear, the utilities of these items is relative, think a DAG. gold > bitcoin. food > gold. transport to safe haven > food,guns. Maybe. Medicine > gold, also. Not trying to say anythin…

I don't get this obsession with gold. Yes it's shiny and has historically represented value and wealth, but people apply it as the unit of currency society will fall back on in times of crisis, like a civil war. If there's fighting and chaos all around and infrastructure is cut off, clean water, food, medicine, and weapons are pretty much all that will hold any value.

During a war, perhaps. But once things settle down I think gold will be the go to unit of currency.

In a functional society no one wants to pay for their goods with food or water.

Re: Traffic From Syria Disappears From Internet

#19

Post by venomsnake »

BCM43 wrote: post #7
cookiecaper wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is what bitcoiners and similar don't understand. It's not like your internet connection will remain happy and stable while the rest of the world goes to hell around us. Telecomms will be a first-class target, and most systems have some pretty central points of failure that would make juicy (and easy) targets. In such a situation, if you've chosen to use an electronic cryptocurrency dependent on things like r…

What would you suggest people put their money in then? Gold? Guns? The problems you describe are problems for just about every currency right now. How much of your money do you have in cash, and how much is in the bank? Do you think you will still be able to use the bank in a situation like the one you describe?

I will coin two phrases now:

1. Venomsnake's law - every discussion on Hacker's news degrades to bitcoins.

2. Goldilocks apocalypse - every goldbug, bitcoin miner and similar depends on the crash of civilization in just the right way that everything will be the same but his economic decisions will put him on top with the pure strength of speculation. Whatever assets you have the federal government will be able to confiscate if the need is dire enough. Whatever protection the law gives you can be reverted.

There is no safety. To be able to claim and hold to a property you rely on massive infrastructure. If the dollar and the federal government crashes - it will vaporize too.

Re: Traffic From Syria Disappears From Internet

#20

Post by aaronblohowiak »

BCM43 wrote: post #7
cookiecaper wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is what bitcoiners and similar don't understand. It's not like your internet connection will remain happy and stable while the rest of the world goes to hell around us. Telecomms will be a first-class target, and most systems have some pretty central points of failure that would make juicy (and easy) targets. In such a situation, if you've chosen to use an electronic cryptocurrency dependent on things like r…

What would you suggest people put their money in then? Gold? Guns? The problems you describe are problems for just about every currency right now. How much of your money do you have in cash, and how much is in the bank? Do you think you will still be able to use the bank in a situation like the one you describe?

"put their money in?" are you seeking an instability-hedged value store or trying to maximize the utils for given items?

Water and fuel.

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