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You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

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Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#21

Post by jaf12duke »

adambard wrote: post #3

I started working at a small startup in January. With the team as small as it is, the working hours are very flexible -- if I make it into the office at 10:00, I'm usually the first one there. Since I had the luxury, I did something that I want to wholeheartedly recommend to anyone who can: I stopped using an alarm clock. I'm a "night owl". I tend to have trouble sleeping before midnight, and often stay up later than…

I have a slight tweak on this. I stopped using an audible alarm clock. I've used a light-only alarm clock for years now--

The real value is that the light rises slowly and your body eventually wakes up when it's ready.

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#22

Post by adambard »

jaf12duke wrote: post #21
adambard wrote: post #3

I started working at a small startup in January. With the team as small as it is, the working hours are very flexible -- if I make it into the office at 10:00, I'm usually the first one there. Since I had the luxury, I did something that I want to wholeheartedly recommend to anyone who can: I stopped using an alarm clock. I'm a "night owl". I tend to have trouble sleeping before midnight, and often stay up later than…

I have a slight tweak on this. I stopped using an audible alarm clock. I've used a light-only alarm clock for years now-- The real value is that the light rises slowly and your body eventually wakes up when it's ready.

The window in my bedroom approximately faces the rising sun, which certainly doesn't hurt the situation. I didn't make a point of that, but I'd definitely miss it.

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#24

Post by SurfScore »

hapless wrote: post #23

You don't have to feel guilty, but you still might get fired. Jason Freedman answers only to shareholders, not a boss, which is why he can decide whether he feels guilty or not.

I disagree. Investors often have a much more personal relationship with the founder. They made a bet on YOU. Your boss may or may not even care about you or whether you work there.

More importantly, you might not give a rats ass what your boss thinks of you. Just because he's "in charge" doesn't mean he doesn't have a large amount of accountability.

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#25

Post by ctdonath »

stephengillie wrote: post #11
ctdonath wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

find myself waking up in the dead of night at 4am and being completely awake Search for recent threads on sleep referencing "first sleep". Seems the electric light has made us forget most sane humans through most of history would sleep at sunset, then wake a few hours later in a relaxed blissful state, then sleep again. Methinks what you experience (not uncommon) is natural behavior, subverted by not realizing you're…

This sounds like 2-phase sleep caused by sleeping too early.

Not sure I'd call it "too early" when it was the norm for most of human existence. Sleep at sunset, wake at dawn, enjoy some nocturnal activity mid night. Artificial lighting hasn't been around all that long, yet we have forgotten what natural lighting means for sleep cycles.

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#26

Post by toomuchtodo »

Udo wrote: post #16

People's sleep cycles are just different, even if it's not fashionable to acknowledge that. They differ with the person and they differ with the personal situation at the time. This notion that there is The One True Sleep Pattern and that everybody should adhere to it is not tenable in my opinion. It's a strategy that sells books on how to become "normal", nothing else. I'm a night person, I viscerally hate mornings,…

Yes.

I am not productive whatsoever before 10am. I would rather work 10am-11am until late into the night (2am-3am).

One sleep schedule for everyone? Never going to happen.

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#27

Post by lobster_johnson »

adambard wrote: post #3

I started working at a small startup in January. With the team as small as it is, the working hours are very flexible -- if I make it into the office at 10:00, I'm usually the first one there. Since I had the luxury, I did something that I want to wholeheartedly recommend to anyone who can: I stopped using an alarm clock. I'm a "night owl". I tend to have trouble sleeping before midnight, and often stay up later than…

> It took me about a month at to sleep off my debt.

I am pretty sure you didn't "sleep off your debt". Sleep debt is something you easily recover right away, just by sleeping until you wake naturally.

What you did was to shift your circadian phase. The circadian phase is usually measured by the nadir point of the core body temperature rhythm [1] (apparently the better measurement is of the "endogenous melatonin rhythm", but it's easier to talk about core body temperature).

Apparently you can force the nadir point forward, but it's relatively hard to move it backwards. You move it forward by delaying sleep, thus accumulating sleep debt that causes you to get up increasignly later. To move it backwards you have to curtail your sleep, thus accumulating sleep debt which needs to be paid at some point.

About your solution: As a fellow night owl, if I just set my sleep cycle free, at it were, then my wakeup time quickly shifts to around 16-17:00, and I sleep 9-10 hours per night. So while your recipe works for you, it's not for everyone.

[1] http://www.cmse.ch/pdf/colloque_14_octobre/6_approche%20trou...

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#28

Post by _delirium »

hapless wrote: post #23

You don't have to feel guilty, but you still might get fired. Jason Freedman answers only to shareholders, not a boss, which is why he can decide whether he feels guilty or not.

I don't read him as arguing you shouldn't do anything about it. He does end with "it is on you to decide to do something about it". What is another question, with the parameters depending on a lot of things, from personal preference (do you mind not seeing the sun?) to schedule constraints (job, children, etc.).

I just read him as arguing that you should recognize it as a natural condition rather than a failure of willpower or laziness, and approach it accordingly. That could still mean looking for methods to modify it, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder#Ma...

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#30

Post by veb »

Udo wrote: post #16

People's sleep cycles are just different, even if it's not fashionable to acknowledge that. They differ with the person and they differ with the personal situation at the time. This notion that there is The One True Sleep Pattern and that everybody should adhere to it is not tenable in my opinion. It's a strategy that sells books on how to become "normal", nothing else. I'm a night person, I viscerally hate mornings,…

I'm deaf, and I can't wake up to the traditional beepy noises that alarm clocks have, so I have this really awesome vibrating alarm clock that clips on to my pillow.

I used to have such difficulty waking up, but this vibrating alarm clock annoyed me so much, I'd actually end up waking 5mins before to turn it off before it could vibrate...

I did that all through high-school, and now I've gone from a night-owl to a morning person, by training myself to hate that alarm clock.

The one in question: http://assistivetech.net/search/productDisplay.php?product_i...

I've had it for about 10 years I think. Changed the batteries twice. Love this thing to death. (this is not a plug by the way, the link above was whatever came up in Google)

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