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Bitcoin will soon block small transaction outputs

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21–30 of 90 posts

Re: Bitcoin will soon block small transaction outputs

#21

This sucks. I thought one of the killer apps for bitcoin was going to be micropayments. Oh well maybe the world will switch to litecoin.

It's been revealed before that bitcoin doesn't really do micropayments.. Not completely sure why. Block reward is also still far larger than transaction rewards, yet miners still enforce pretty large transaction fees.

Re: Bitcoin will soon block small transaction outputs

#23
Small value amounts are useful for smart property: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Smart_Property

The tl;dr: Represent a piece of property, say a stock certificate, as a small value of bitcoin. By transferring the bitcoin to another user, you are transferring the ownership of the property. This can be useful for creating distributed markets where property can be traded for bitcoins without requiring a trusted intermediary.

I don't understand why this is such a big deal for the developers. You see a lot of panic about UTXO bloat. It seems to me this can be solved by making the UTXO cache a bit smarter. If you have a very small value output that has not been used in a while, store it on the harddrive, not in RAM. If the output shows up in a new transaction, you will have a cache miss, but that doesn't seem like a serious issue. If the client is smart property aware, store those dusty-looking outputs in a seperate cache.

This might be an attack vector for DDOS attacks, but that should be solvable by throttling the processing of transactions that miss the cache.

The propogation of transactions that are not in the RAM cache might be a bit longer, but that is the price you pay for making a transaction with dust.

Re: Bitcoin will soon block small transaction outputs

#24
post #3

I do not understand this move. If blockchain size is an issue, I don't understand why the focus isn't pruning the blockchain so that only the hashed headers are stored for past transactions. This defeats the point of having 8 decimal places if you can only reasonably use 3+.

It's presumably only temporary measure, and only present in the reference client. Anything below four decimal places is completely worthless at this point anyway; do you really have a use for being able to send 0.01c USD?

If micropayments are ever to be possible, sub-penny transactions need to happen. If 10^6 people send you $0.001, you get $1k....

Re: Bitcoin will soon block small transaction outputs

#25
post #14

This sucks. I thought one of the killer apps for bitcoin was going to be micropayments. Oh well maybe the world will switch to litecoin.

No this is awesome. Only transaction smaller than about half a cent is blocked. There's no good reason to make a transaction that small on the blockchain. Satoshidice sends thousands of transactions of one satoshi each every day and it adds gigabytes of data to to millions of computers worldwide. What a waste of resources.

But true micro payments do need to be a lot smaller than that. It's kind of the idea if every web browser could load a dollar a week into their browser and have it evenly paid to each site they visit.

It doesn't seem like a lot of money but if everyone did it I'm guessing it would probably beat Adsense.

There are hundreds of other applications as well for micropayments.

Re: Bitcoin will soon block small transaction outputs

#26
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No this is awesome. Only transaction smaller than about half a cent is blocked. There's no good reason to make a transaction that small on the blockchain. Satoshidice sends thousands of transactions of one satoshi each every day and it adds gigabytes of data to to millions of computers worldwide. What a waste of resources.

But true micro payments do need to be a lot smaller than that. It's kind of the idea if every web browser could load a dollar a week into their browser and have it evenly paid to each site they visit. It doesn't seem like a lot of money but if everyone did it I'm guessing it would probably beat Adsense. There are hundreds of other applications as well for micropayments.

You can aggregate those and pay them out when they become big enough. Bitcoin stores every transaction on every computer on the Bitcoin network. It's not suited to transactions that small, you're just wasting everyone's resources.

Re: Bitcoin will soon block small transaction outputs

#28
post #14

This sucks. I thought one of the killer apps for bitcoin was going to be micropayments. Oh well maybe the world will switch to litecoin.

No this is awesome. Only transaction smaller than about half a cent is blocked. There's no good reason to make a transaction that small on the blockchain. Satoshidice sends thousands of transactions of one satoshi each every day and it adds gigabytes of data to to millions of computers worldwide. What a waste of resources.

>here's no good reason to make a transaction that small on the blockchain.

You don't have the right to say that, it should be my right to decide whether my transaction size is appropriate or not. This sounds like regulation to me.

Re: Bitcoin will soon block small transaction outputs

#29

I assume the reason behind this is to block people from encoding data into the block chain by doing thousands of worthless transactions. If I recall correctly someone recently encoded the URL to a child porn site into the block chain, this is the only reasonable response to prevent it from happening again IMO.

Encoding data into the blockchain isn't a bug--it's a feature (perhaps THE feature). When you want distributed consensus (e.g. for free-as-in-speech domain names), it's the only game in town. People should be able to put whatever data they want in the system, assuming they cover the cost.

Re: Bitcoin will soon block small transaction outputs

#30

This sucks. I thought one of the killer apps for bitcoin was going to be micropayments. Oh well maybe the world will switch to litecoin.

Bitcoin was never intended for raw micropayments. The blockchain is just too expensive to maintain for such transactions. Litecoin doesn't provide any advantages over Bitcoin in this respect.

Some types of micro-transactions can be supported. Mainly, transactions where you have an ongoing relationship with the other party. For instance, paying for Wi-Fi access, one kilobit at a time: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_7:_Rapidly-adju...

Micro-transactions can also be supported through other centralized systems built on top of the main bitcoin system. For example Open Transactions: https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions

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