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Bitcoin vs. Ben Bernanke

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21–30 of 94 posts

Re: Bitcoin vs. Ben Bernanke

#21

Decent enough article, but whenever talking about Bitcoins I find it helpful to separate the various roles that money performs. That is, Bitcoin is an awesome medium of exchange, a risky store of value, and a horrible medium of account. Just use it for what it's good for and everything's fine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_of_exchange http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Store_of_value http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit…

I actually think it's a mediocre medium of exchange, due to the fact that transactions are not immediate, but rather can take as long as an hour or more for a reasonable level of confidence in the integrity of a transaction. There are competing cryptocurrencies being developed now that are much better media of exchange since transactions are both secure and immediate.

I think Bitcoin's real promise is as a store of value. Yes, it's extremely volatile now, and people are getting used to the fact that if you lose your Bitcoins, they're gone for good. But compare Bitcoins to cash (tends to lose its value over time) and gold (expensive to store, hard to exchange). It's also incredibly easy to exchange Bitcoins for other digital currencies, like the ones I refer to above.

I think that once Bitcoin reaches a large market cap, like the size of gold, it will be much less volatile, and less risky. At that point, all the advantages above will become apparent. So Bitcoin's future may well be as a digital reserve currency.

Re: Bitcoin vs. Ben Bernanke

#22

Interesting point: "And for those who wish to avoid both inflation and deflation, what about a digital currency programmed to maintain stable prices, avoiding mischief by central bankers as well as the possibility of deflation?" My gut is that this is not possible. Enforcing stable prices requires constant data about price levels, and with decentralized markets there doesn't seem to be an accurate way to get that dat…

Unless a large portion of the marketplace for those goods and services moves to the currency's p2p client itself, at which point it becomes trivial to integrate price levels (i.e., a "basket of goods and services") into the protocol.

Imagine if an expanded ebay marketplace, including a wide range of goods and services, were integrated into today's Bitcoin protocol.

Unlikely, and very hard to implement, but not impossible.

Re: Bitcoin vs. Ben Bernanke

#23
post #4

Every article I read about Bitcoin has a picture of a metal bitcoin in it. I guess that is to make sure very few people get the point of what bitcoin is.

I'm sure people that read Bitcoin articles make their judgement through the articles' content as opposed to a picture.

I don't. Pictures are very appealing and easy to digest, I'd rather they be more clear with visual media than with the article itself.

Re: Bitcoin vs. Ben Bernanke

#24
post #14
post #5

I'll admit that the WSJ here is not as laughably bad as some quotations from their infamous op-eds had led me to believe. Maybe I was too harsh with them. They seem to do the balance thing, or more correctly here, the common sense and economics thing, at least passably well. Either way, there are some real pieces of work here, misconceptions about economics that were dispelled before, again and again. You're going to…

Rant much? I wanted to actually learn something from your post but it reads like a madman wrote it. I own exactly zero bitcoins, but following the market since 2011 has proven that it is getting easier to use and more prevalent. People will be putting down bitcoin as a serious entity even after PayPal is accepting them.

Have you atudied economics? The OP reads like someone who has and is utterly incredulous at the statements being made by Bitcoin's proponents. In fairness, the gentleman interviewed in this article insisted it was all an experiment. But the WSJ editorial board has a long time habit of being very non-mainstream and almost Austrian with its economic views, so this interview was likely intended to play into a political narrative.

Here is a summary of what he is trying to say:

1. Bringing up hyperinflation in Zimbabwe is a common tactic of right-wing/Austrian economists to warn of the evils of government control over fiscal spending and currency, and that our current course of monetary expansion means that we in the US too are on the same path.

This ignores of course that (a) Zimbabwe had a civil war at the time and the government confiscated or destoyed most private productive capacity; (b) we are in a liquidity trap currently, which in short means that money is nearly free to borrow at 0% interest. Companies are sitting on piles of cash or continuing to unwind their debt from the 2008 crisis, therefore we have not enough people spending. Printing money has had no discernible impact on inflation over the past 5 years. In fact, we could use a bit right now - to encourage spending!

2. The thought that "encouraging saving is good" therefore fixed currency and deflation is good.

An economy is a closed system - if some are saving, others have to spend to keep the music going. If we all stop spending, we get into a depression, where people lose their jobs, and the economy isn't working to its potential - all because the currency is rising in value.

In short, it is arguable the point of an economic system is to make and consume goods and services, not sit and watch your bank balance grow due to the psychological whims of the market.

3. A currency based in faith is not a dangerous thing - basing currency on gold is mostly a form of superstition. and it has real drawbacks (see #2).

Lots of things in the world are based on faith in institutions or theorems. Bitcoin is too - faith in the algorithm, that it works and won't be compromised. Also (blind) faith that a fixed amount of Bitcoin will not lead to destabilization.

Now. Does that help? These arguments lead to exasperation because they seem to happen over and over across decades in slightly different forms.

Re: Bitcoin vs. Ben Bernanke

#25
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rant much? I wanted to actually learn something from your post but it reads like a madman wrote it. I own exactly zero bitcoins, but following the market since 2011 has proven that it is getting easier to use and more prevalent. People will be putting down bitcoin as a serious entity even after PayPal is accepting them.

Have you atudied economics? The OP reads like someone who has and is utterly incredulous at the statements being made by Bitcoin's proponents. In fairness, the gentleman interviewed in this article insisted it was all an experiment. But the WSJ editorial board has a long time habit of being very non-mainstream and almost Austrian with its economic views, so this interview was likely intended to play into a political…

On your point 2. Saving doesn't have to mean saving money. It can mean investing in stocks, bond, or funding start ups.

Re: Bitcoin vs. Ben Bernanke

#26
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rant much? I wanted to actually learn something from your post but it reads like a madman wrote it. I own exactly zero bitcoins, but following the market since 2011 has proven that it is getting easier to use and more prevalent. People will be putting down bitcoin as a serious entity even after PayPal is accepting them.

Have you atudied economics? The OP reads like someone who has and is utterly incredulous at the statements being made by Bitcoin's proponents. In fairness, the gentleman interviewed in this article insisted it was all an experiment. But the WSJ editorial board has a long time habit of being very non-mainstream and almost Austrian with its economic views, so this interview was likely intended to play into a political…

"An economy is a closed system" that's not quite true.

The economy is a balance between things that create value and those that destroy it. In a healthy economy more value is created than destroyed so as long as the 'savings' is close to the amount of new wealth created there is no problem. The problem is when people try to store more value than than the genuine amount of new wealth created. Often it's as simple as a bubble created by over-investment followed by a crash back to actual value. However, the special case of people 'investing' in cash cash does strange things which are directly harmful even without a crash.

Re: Bitcoin vs. Ben Bernanke

#27

Decent enough article, but whenever talking about Bitcoins I find it helpful to separate the various roles that money performs. That is, Bitcoin is an awesome medium of exchange, a risky store of value, and a horrible medium of account. Just use it for what it's good for and everything's fine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_of_exchange http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Store_of_value http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit…

I actually think it's a mediocre medium of exchange, due to the fact that transactions are not immediate, but rather can take as long as an hour or more for a reasonable level of confidence in the integrity of a transaction. There are competing cryptocurrencies being developed now that are much better media of exchange since transactions are both secure and immediate. I think Bitcoin's real promise is as a store of v…

Your assuming it makes it that far, I still think Bitcoins will be dead within 50 years and a far more useful cripto currency will take it's place.

Re: Bitcoin vs. Ben Bernanke

#28
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rant much? I wanted to actually learn something from your post but it reads like a madman wrote it. I own exactly zero bitcoins, but following the market since 2011 has proven that it is getting easier to use and more prevalent. People will be putting down bitcoin as a serious entity even after PayPal is accepting them.

Have you atudied economics? The OP reads like someone who has and is utterly incredulous at the statements being made by Bitcoin's proponents. In fairness, the gentleman interviewed in this article insisted it was all an experiment. But the WSJ editorial board has a long time habit of being very non-mainstream and almost Austrian with its economic views, so this interview was likely intended to play into a political…

"right-wing/Austrian economists"

Stopped reading right there. Seriously, if you want to frame Austrians as evil at least try a little harder to be subtle about it.

Re: Bitcoin vs. Ben Bernanke

#29
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you atudied economics? The OP reads like someone who has and is utterly incredulous at the statements being made by Bitcoin's proponents. In fairness, the gentleman interviewed in this article insisted it was all an experiment. But the WSJ editorial board has a long time habit of being very non-mainstream and almost Austrian with its economic views, so this interview was likely intended to play into a political…

On your point 2. Saving doesn't have to mean saving money. It can mean investing in stocks, bond, or funding start ups.

Yes, but deflationary currency discourages that sort of saving, because holding on to the currency works as an investment.

Re: Bitcoin vs. Ben Bernanke

#30
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you atudied economics? The OP reads like someone who has and is utterly incredulous at the statements being made by Bitcoin's proponents. In fairness, the gentleman interviewed in this article insisted it was all an experiment. But the WSJ editorial board has a long time habit of being very non-mainstream and almost Austrian with its economic views, so this interview was likely intended to play into a political…

"right-wing/Austrian economists" Stopped reading right there. Seriously, if you want to frame Austrians as evil at least try a little harder to be subtle about it.

Some would say "left-wing" is actually a euphemism for evil. What you read into "*-wing" is in the eye of the beholder.

All I said was these views were non-mainstream, though there are interst groups working to change that such as the WSJ and certain entrepreneurs or business leaders and think tanks. Not that the views are evil.

Please point me to some left wing Austrian-school economists to refute the association.

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