The cost of hand-to-mouth living • Hacker News Board

Re: The cost of hand-to-mouth living

#71

Post by incision » Sun, May 05, 2013, 3:34 AM UTC

gruseom wrote: post #2

Walmart's CEO talked about this a few years ago—how crowded their stores get around midnight on the last day of the month, because that's when people's payments clear: about 11 p.m., customers start to come in and shop, fill their grocery basket with basic items, baby formula, milk, bread, eggs, and continue to shop and mill about the store until midnight, when electronic — government electronic benefits cards get ac…

That was me growing up.

I'd go out since my mother had to get up at 5:00. That card allowed us to scrape by during some very rough times. I hate to think where we'd have ended up without it.

I'm glad to see a little sympathetic light being shown on this. It always irritates me a bit to hear these programs and the people they help derided politically.

Today, I pay far more in taxes each month than my entire family consumed in such benefits each year growing up.

Re: The cost of hand-to-mouth living

#72

Post by gruseom » Sun, May 05, 2013, 3:38 AM UTC

nathanbarry wrote: post #68

gruseom wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why I like Costco better: the people who work there don't seem as downtrodden. Either I've been fooled by corporate propaganda or they really have figured out a way to make money, lower prices, and treat people relatively well. Walmarts feel like places of despair to me and Costcos like places of hope. I know how ludicrous that sounds, but the feeling is real. I often chat with workers at checkout counters to…

I had an evening a month ago where I had to return similar items to both WalMart and Costco. Each one should have been really quick, but Costco was very slow (about 30 minutes), With a rather rude cashier. Walmart took just 2 minutes and they were perfectly polite and helpful. Strange that Walmart customer support was 100x better.

No doubt variance swamps our puny personal experiences, but for the little that it's worth I've had the opposite: instant return at Costco no questions asked, and a half hour lineup to return a wrong product I'd just mistakenly bought at Walmart. To be fair to Walmart, though, it wasn't their cashiers' fault. There were only two customers in front of me and both were so obstreperously difficult that it became an amusement to watch what ridiculous thing would happen next. One was returning a shopping cart full of dozens of items of clothing. The other was returning a single can of soup. Soup guy was the harder of the two.

Re: The cost of hand-to-mouth living

#73

Post by coolsunglasses » Sun, May 05, 2013, 3:45 AM UTC

nijk wrote: post #45

danso wrote: post #4

I was hoping to see some data on how limited funds forced people to buy inefficiently...that is, buying cheaper quantities that are per-item more expensive than bulk buying because they can't afford the up front cost of buying bulk. My roommate will do this when buying dish soap for the household, always getting the smallest bottle than just paying for the large one at a 30% discount per ounce. Also, some cheap items…

You get 6 apples per big Mac. It is actually a better meal.

Poor people don't buy Big Macs, they load up on dollar menu double cheeseburgers / McDoubles to maximize calories+nutrition per dollar. And the burgers are a better nutritional bet if you're poor.

Re: The cost of hand-to-mouth living

#74

Post by ilaksh » Sun, May 05, 2013, 3:49 AM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #66

ilaksh wrote: post #52

I consider myself to have some pretty useful development skills. I keep up to date with things like HTML5, CoffeeScript, AngularJS, AWS, Node.JS etc. However, I don't know what my problem is, if its lack of social or business skills or no degree or what, but I have been living hand-to-mouth doing freelance software development for years. A lot of my projects have been from outsourcing sites. But some of them have bee…

Stop using outsourcing sites to source clients. Your new rate is $100 per hour, until I can convince you to switch to weekly rates in any case. Go out there and beat the bushes to find businesses which have problems which you can address in AWS/NodeJS/etc which are worth paying your new rate. After your income spikes, start saving some of it so that you can tolerate lean periods between clients. This will let you sto…

When you say "go out there and beat the bushes" what exactly do you mean? I have tried networking a little bit at one or too networking events but few people seemed interested in my help.

Re: The cost of hand-to-mouth living

#75

Post by johnpowell » Sun, May 05, 2013, 4:01 AM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #42

gruseom wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why I like Costco better: the people who work there don't seem as downtrodden. Either I've been fooled by corporate propaganda or they really have figured out a way to make money, lower prices, and treat people relatively well. Walmarts feel like places of despair to me and Costcos like places of hope. I know how ludicrous that sounds, but the feeling is real. I often chat with workers at checkout counters to…

> there's one big difference, though. To shop at Costco you have to buy twice as much (plus typically pay membership fees). That step could be too steep for the people most living hand-to-mouth, even though it would save them money within weeks. So there could be sample bias here too. See the article Why Can’t Walmart Be More Like Costco? [0] for more on this. 0: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/26/why-c…

I ran into this today when buying TP. I actually just wrote about it.

http://stfudamnit.com/2013/05/04/poverty-toilet-paper-and-th...

Re: The cost of hand-to-mouth living

#76

Post by patio11 » Sun, May 05, 2013, 4:03 AM UTC

ilaksh wrote: post #74

patio11 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop using outsourcing sites to source clients. Your new rate is $100 per hour, until I can convince you to switch to weekly rates in any case. Go out there and beat the bushes to find businesses which have problems which you can address in AWS/NodeJS/etc which are worth paying your new rate. After your income spikes, start saving some of it so that you can tolerate lean periods between clients. This will let you sto…

When you say "go out there and beat the bushes" what exactly do you mean? I have tried networking a little bit at one or too networking events but few people seemed interested in my help.

Networking events are generally not the best place to meet people with business problems -- they tend to attract a bit more of an aspirational audience. Business owners with budget congregate in predictable places: conferences for their industry, their own offices, locally organized meetups, the Chamber of Commerce, etc etc. If you absolutely can't find an appropriate event, throw one yourself. I'm totally serious. Throw a seminar on How to (Put Any Business Goal Here) With (Pick A Technology They Have Heard About Recently) For (Pick An Industry). Rent out a room for a few hours at the local civic center or whatever you have in your neck of the woods. Buy coffee/donuts for everyone. Teach folks for an hour. Give a five minute sales pitch at the end. Let folks mingle for a while so they can enjoy your coffee and donuts. Many people will come up and introduce themselves to you.

(This can be done on approximately a $100 budget in Ogaki, so that's probably the upper bound for you. If you can't afford that, write up how this advice actually worked out for you in a blog post and I'll reimburse you.)

Invite people via pre-existing networks like e.g. the Chamber of Commerce, which is generally happy to tell their members about free events which aren't (explicit) sales pitches.

When meeting people, ask about their business problems. Listen. Tell them that you understand those problems. If appropriate, say that you think you can produce a solution to those problems, since you are in the business of doing that as a technology consultant, and offer to discuss that problem in more detail after the event.

Re: The cost of hand-to-mouth living

#77

Post by [deleted] » Sun, May 05, 2013, 4:10 AM UTC

ctdonath wrote: post #67

k3n wrote: post #7

There really isn't much to this article. From the title, I thought it was going to discuss the problems that people face when they live paycheck-to-paycheck and/or near the poverty line, which is a story that's been told but bears repeating and further exploration. Instead, it merely remarks that some US corporations have noticed an upward trend in the number of their customers who are a part of this very predictable…

Yeah, I was hoping for practical quantification of the minimum viable cost of living. Fascinated with $1 meals, I get a lot of flack over "cost of living" which usually includes a lot which I consider relative luxuries. Take those waiting for the midnight EBT recharge and see what they really buy, and see whether their choices are more a matter of need, desire, education, awareness, and/or availability. Methinks the…

[deleted]

Re: The cost of hand-to-mouth living

#78

Post by gexla » Sun, May 05, 2013, 4:13 AM UTC

TY wrote: post #61

dools wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably aren't charging enough. I have been through this so feel free to email me iain@workingsoftware.com.au if you'd like to discuss it.

Agree with dools - try charging more. I increased my revenues by 25% simply by asking. Once this contract is over, I'll increase my rates again. One important note - I have a proven record of someone who delivers. I suggest you invest in making sure your next customer understands it. It doesn't take much - do a nice write up about yourself on LinkedIn and ask previous customers to write endorsements.

For many people, increasing rates also increases that ability to deliver.

A hand to mouth developer has to prioritize by which project will pay an invoice the fastest rather than the highest paying project (I need to get paid today, I can't afford to wait for big corp to pay me net 30.) That means plans may change on a day to day basis and low priority projects get delayed.

The hand to mouth developer may unexpectedly fall off the radar because he got his internet shut off and can't pay the bill.

The hand to mouth developer takes on too much work and ends up delaying everything because he doesn't have enough time to knock everything out. If he hits burnout from this, then he may fall off the radar indefinitely.

You MUST set your rates at least to a point where you can save money. You MUST have at least a 3 month cushion (the more the merrier.)

For those looking to hire freelance developers, a low rate should be a red flag. You don't want to risk your business on someone who is being affected by these issues.

Re: The cost of hand-to-mouth living

#79

Post by gexla » Sun, May 05, 2013, 4:16 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #57

ilaksh wrote: post #52

I consider myself to have some pretty useful development skills. I keep up to date with things like HTML5, CoffeeScript, AngularJS, AWS, Node.JS etc. However, I don't know what my problem is, if its lack of social or business skills or no degree or what, but I have been living hand-to-mouth doing freelance software development for years. A lot of my projects have been from outsourcing sites. But some of them have bee…

You're not the exception. The big shot web devs in HN and in blogging forums are the exception -- and, through survivorship bias et al, they make it sound like it was just their "hard work and persistence" that got them there.

Not to mention that managing a business (freelancing) is a totally different skill set than web development. Of the developers out there who are decent at web development, many are hopeless at running a business.

Re: The cost of hand-to-mouth living

#80

Post by bane » Sun, May 05, 2013, 4:41 AM UTC

gruseom wrote: post #18

dopamean wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at WalMart for 3 years. I worked overnight doing inventory management and I saw exactly what the CEO described. One thing I noticed that he didn't mention is that a large number of the people I worked with were part of that group of people waiting at midnight to buy their baby formula. I always felt like the wages at our store were subsidized by the government. All of the people I talking about worked full t…

That is why I like Costco better: the people who work there don't seem as downtrodden. Either I've been fooled by corporate propaganda or they really have figured out a way to make money, lower prices, and treat people relatively well. Walmarts feel like places of despair to me and Costcos like places of hope. I know how ludicrous that sounds, but the feeling is real. I often chat with workers at checkout counters to…

I've also noticed, at my local Costcos (there's something like 5 within 30 minutes from my house), that there is a pretty large cadre of very long-term employees there. There's a few employees I recognize going on 10 years of employment there.

They're doing something right I think.