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Google changes Palestinian location from 'Territories' to 'Palestine'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Google changes Palestinian location from 'Territories' to 'Palestine'

#31

Post by dragonwriter »

minopret wrote: post #23
dragonwriter wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think companies should take a stance on political issues, which is what Google is doing here. Every possible choice of wording for anything having to do with the area of land bounded by the Mediterranean Sea, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt involves taking a stance on a contentious political issue. I don't think corporations (or anyone else) should avoid making such choices because they inherently require…

My maps show Lebanon with Syria to the north and east, the Mediterranean Sea to the west. I imagine yours do also.

Yeah, yeah.

Edited: Turkey -> Lebanon

Re: Google changes Palestinian location from 'Territories' to 'Palestine'

#32

Post by dragonwriter »

MacsHeadroom wrote: post #28
youngerdryas wrote: post #7

I hereby declare Quebec free.

> "In this case, we are following the lead of the UN, Icann, ISO and other international organisations." Maybe corporations will start to recognize Quebec as free when the UN, ICANN, ISO, and a handful of other apolitical organizations do too, as is the case with the officially recognized state of Palestine.

> Maybe corporations will start to recognize Quebec as free when the UN, ICANN, ISO, and a handful of other apolitical organizations do too

UN, ICANN, and ISO aren't apolitical organizations.

Re: Google changes Palestinian location from 'Territories' to 'Palestine'

#33

Post by corin_ »

gngeal wrote: post #30
sp332 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could Google avoid taking a stance? Either they call it one thing or the other. Or they could call every contested bit of land Narnia but then no one would be happy with them.

"How could Google avoid taking a stance? Either they call it one thing or the other." Perhaps avoiding taking a stance could take the form of following the current practice of major players (UN and others)...?

Which is exactly what they've just done?

Re: Google changes Palestinian location from 'Territories' to 'Palestine'

#35

Post by joshguthrie »

It's interesting to read this post as a "western world citizen" whose country's boundaries rarely (if never) change (well, I don't think a big part of HN ever heard of its country boundaries ever changed in his lifetime).

It felt eye-opening when I stumbled on this issue some years ago. We were building a Google Maps app for a branch of the UN and my boss told me we needed to hide the map's boundaries and use the ones supplied by the UN. I was rather intrigued and he explained how the boundaries used by Google sometimes clashed with the UN's recognition of boundaries for some countries. So I went and loaded the KML using the UN-official boundaries.

Of course, I see some were quick to jump the "Google is taking too much power" bandwagon, but a story is not just on HN to be told but also to engage our minds to reflect. And to me, the story here seems to be about digital recognition of countries beginning to be almost on par with international recognition, and how the digital world, that we thought (hoped?) would abolish the frontiers between men, is still taking these frontiers in account.

Re: Google changes Palestinian location from 'Territories' to 'Palestine'

#36

Post by msoad »

BrianEatWorld wrote: post #25

Part of me (the part that watches Better Off Ted) thinks this is just another change along the lines of the recent Gmail minimalism. The new logo which drops the word "territories" looks much cleaner and switching to Palestine from Palestinian really tightens things up.

I don't think it's as simple as that. For example there was a debate about Google Farsi[1]. It used to be Google Parsi which is closer to Persian culture but then it changed to Google Farsi which is new name of Parsi (Persian language) after adopting Arabic alphabet by Persians.

Farsi vs. Parsi has tons of difference. People got mad and happy for this decision. I don't believe this kind of decision is made by design team.

[1] https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=fa

Re: Google changes Palestinian location from 'Territories' to 'Palestine'

#37

Post by justincormack »

joshguthrie wrote: post #35

It's interesting to read this post as a "western world citizen" whose country's boundaries rarely (if never) change (well, I don't think a big part of HN ever heard of its country boundaries ever changed in his lifetime). It felt eye-opening when I stumbled on this issue some years ago. We were building a Google Maps app for a branch of the UN and my boss told me we needed to hide the map's boundaries and use the one…

Borders change quite a bit, Yugoslavia broke up, and Czechoslovakia too, both of which I am sure many HN readers are from. East and West Germany merged, even more HN readers from there.

Re: Google changes Palestinian location from 'Territories' to 'Palestine'

#38

Post by walid »

dragonwriter wrote: post #19
ars wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that these days having Google recognize your claims to being a country is more important than having the UN recognize it (which it doesn't, yet Google does).

> The point is that these days having Google recognize your claims to being a country is more important than having the UN recognize it (which it doesn't, yet Google does). Actually, Google is (and this is covered in their announcement) following the UN and other international organizations in the wording change (which is not, on Google's part, recognition of Palestine as a State so much as recognition that it is an…

Thanks for the link.

Re: Google changes Palestinian location from 'Territories' to 'Palestine'

#39

Post by joshguthrie »

justincormack wrote: post #37
joshguthrie wrote: post #35

It's interesting to read this post as a "western world citizen" whose country's boundaries rarely (if never) change (well, I don't think a big part of HN ever heard of its country boundaries ever changed in his lifetime). It felt eye-opening when I stumbled on this issue some years ago. We were building a Google Maps app for a branch of the UN and my boss told me we needed to hide the map's boundaries and use the one…

Borders change quite a bit, Yugoslavia broke up, and Czechoslovakia too, both of which I am sure many HN readers are from. East and West Germany merged, even more HN readers from there.

Guilty on this one, especially since Germany is a neighboring country and I didn't even think of it. Which illustrates my point: when our borders never changed, we can have a tendency to take them for granted and not imagine that other countries are struggling to have theirs recognized.

Re: Google changes Palestinian location from 'Territories' to 'Palestine'

#40

Post by jpatokal »

will_brown wrote: post #18
tokenadult wrote: post #10

This issue came up a few times before in discussion on Hacker News. A little known fact is that "facts on the ground," even entries in reference books or labeling on maps, can be taken in international law to indicate acquiescence to territorial claims by other countries (or to indicate assertion of hostile claims by the country in which the reference books or maps are published). This is why some countries with exte…

Under International Law it is the Montevideo Convention, under which the four criteria for statehood are defined: The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montevideo_Convention ) However, I like your phrase…

Reality is not as straightforward as the Convention, which is pretty loose anyway (who defines that territory, government and capacity?). There are in fact two very different schools of thought on what creates statehood:

http://www.lawteacher.net/constitutional-law/essays/declarat...

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