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I feel like Gmail went from being Photoshop to Draw Something

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Re: I feel like Gmail went from being Photoshop to Draw Something

#121

Post by skriticos2 »

mixmax wrote: post #91
esalman wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tab+Return sends email.

Thanks - I didn't notice that. After having mistakenly sent a few embarrassing half e-mails I've stopped using tab altogether in gmail for fear of doing it again. When I indent text it's spaces instead of tab - unlike anywhere else. This proves the point that it's terrible UI though...

It's messy that they replaced these conventions but I understand that gmail is not targeted at the geek population exclusively anymore. Also, I like minimalistic user interfaces and geeks should be able to adapt. Here is a mapping for gmail:

Tab -> Ctrl + ]

Shift + Tab -> Ctrl + [

Quote -> Ctrl + Shift + 9

(They are also helpfully annotated in the formatting menu in case you forget.)

Re: I feel like Gmail went from being Photoshop to Draw Something

#122

Post by gcr »

kevinpet wrote: post #106
richardjs wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's nitpicking. It's the difference between the standard way web forms work and Gmail overriding a known behavior to do something else. That said, after you hit tab, you'll probably type a word and hit space, which will then click the button and send off the message.

I had no idea what he was talking about until the replies. You and grandparent are wrong. Standard behavior on web forms is tab moves you to the next element. You are expecting gmail to act like a desktop app, and maybe you could make the argument that it should, but that's a different issue.

We can definitely make the case that it used to and that it doesn't anymore. Sending an email isn't like filling in several text boxes on a web form, it's composing/editing a lengthy message that often has proper formatting like indentation.

Re: I feel like Gmail went from being Photoshop to Draw Something

#124

Post by mietek »

cmircea wrote: post #79
kpanghmc wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning the following keyboard shortcuts for formatting bullet lists made the transition to the new compose UI much less painful for me: ctrl + shift + 8 to create a new bullet list ctrl + ] to indent right ctrl + [ to indent left

Ctrl + Shift + 8? You gotta be shitting me! Ctrl + ] & [ to indent? What's wrong with Tab & Shift-Tab, like in every other app?

Shift + 8 = *

Seems like a sensible mnemonic to me.

Re: I feel like Gmail went from being Photoshop to Draw Something

#125

Post by mnicole »

tomkarlo wrote: post #70

Does anyone really think Photoshop is a good UX for mass consumption (which is obviously the target for Gmail)? I've been using it since version 2, and I think it's a great product, but for new users it's a miserably difficult product to learn, especially for any kind of casual use. There's a reason why users love apps like Draw Something or (more relevantly) Instagram or Paper. They're able to easily achieve the res…

> for new users it's a miserably difficult product to learn, especially for any kind of casual use.

.. means the UX is bad. Just because it's an advanced tool doesn't mean it needs to be unreasonably difficult to wrap your head around. Pixelmator isn't as powerful, but the UX for most of what it does far exceeds Photoshop's similar features.

Re: I feel like Gmail went from being Photoshop to Draw Something

#126

Post by chris_j »

buo wrote: post #76
rayiner wrote: post #51

Gmail is now a cluster fuck of terribleness. Who the hell decided it was a good idea to make you type your email in what is basically a slightly larger chat window? Who decided it would be a good idea to put the "reply" edit box at the end of a potentially very long email? Oh, and make it fit like six lines of text. I swear, this is what happens when you let a bunch of kids run the show. "My emails are rarely ever mo…

What bothers me most about gmail is the flat conversations, where you can't see that a message was a reply to an email in the middle of a thread. It seems I'm almost alone thinking this way, though -- it's not a complaint I often hear from other people.

I agree; that's one thing that I notice, especially in an email chain with a lot of people in it. What would you like to see Gmail do about it?

Re: I feel like Gmail went from being Photoshop to Draw Something

#127

Post by missing_cipher »

mixmax wrote: post #74

Here's another total usability fail: Tab sends the e-mail you're currently writing instead of indenting text. Everywhere else tab indents text, and when you write an e-mail in gmail you'd expect it to act consistently with how it's used everywhere else. Start writing in gmail, hit tab to indent some text. Congratulations you've now sent half an e-mail to you boss.... I can't fathom who thought this was a good idea.

The default behavior for "Tab" on the web is to move to the next element on the Tab order.

Re: I feel like Gmail went from being Photoshop to Draw Something

#128

Post by gcr »

DanBC wrote: post #87
cmircea wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ctrl + Shift + 8? You gotta be shitting me! Ctrl + ] & [ to indent? What's wrong with Tab & Shift-Tab, like in every other app?

Uh, [tab] usually switches focus to next control, and shift-tab switches focus to previous control. Thus, when I hit [tab] now focus is taken out of this text box and to the reply button.

HN discourages formatting. We don't indent posts, we don't have nested lists.

Gmail and email encourage formatting. You're writing a letter, not a twitter post.

Re: I feel like Gmail went from being Photoshop to Draw Something

#129

Post by chch »

jen_h wrote: post #30
hdragomir wrote: post #13

Considering Google made all those changes to make the experience better and managing mails easier for most people, I think the author should recognise that he's in the minority - an edge case - and maybe consider switching to an email client that suits his needs rather than whine about one that works just great for many other people.

How difficult would it be, though, for Google to hide some advanced options in settings for power users to enable? Always Expand Header, Always Expand Collapsed Content, etc. When you're handling more than one or two emails in succession, every keyboard-shortcut that became a triple-click-drag adds up and takes time. I don't believe the author is an extreme minority - Google should cater to all of its customers - req…

I realize it's from a different product, but I find that these 'minority' cases in Google products are often summed up by:

https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=223070#c...

"Why was this closed if we're leaving it for future consideration?"

"Because it's asking for an option and we don't do options."

Re: I feel like Gmail went from being Photoshop to Draw Something

#130

Post by tomkarlo »

ebbv wrote: post #107
tomkarlo wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, my point was that the analogy shows the problem with the rest of the post - he's applying a faulty standard to judging if the changes are good ones or not. If it's just griping that he doesn't like the changes, fine, but if his point is that these are bad changes that don't make sense for the product, then he needs to pick a better analogy. Everyone wants simpler, more intuitive products, unless it disrupts the…

I think despite the weak analogy, his point is obviously valid and solid. Gmail has gotten shittier for everyone .

That's a pretty broad statement. It seems like what he's written is that it's gotten worse for someone with his use cases, which I'm not arguing (and I fall in that camp.) But we're also not representative of the average email user, which we sometimes have a tendency to forget when judging product changes.
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