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A Proposal: Renaming Backend/Frontend to Application/UI Developers

theothersideofcode.com

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Re: A Proposal: Renaming Backend/Frontend to Application/UI Developers

#31

Post by dr3daemon »

My own opinion - If you can't write code for the frontend OR the backend then it's not the frontend / backend part that is a problem with your title, it's the developer bit....

And that's not meant to be a criticism of anyone - if you are a good programmer you _can_ write frontend OR backend code in any language - maybe you just haven't done it yet. So why is it part of your job title? At best it should be in the prior experience section of your CV.

Code is code. At the end of the day it's all 1s and 0s. Don't limit yourself.

Re: A Proposal: Renaming Backend/Frontend to Application/UI Developers

#33

Post by greghinch »

I personally would prefer to see this divide:

- Product developer - implements the functionality, from the database to the functional UI. Lives in Ruby/Python/PHP/etc. AND Javascript

- UI designer - creates and implements visual designs. Lives in Photoshop and HTML/CSS

- Dev Ops - maintains the infrastructure, optimizes resources, manages deployment. Lives on the command line

Of course, all these rolls have crossover. And hopefully that's a good thing, your team shouldn't be segregated by knowledge barriers.

A big problem I see is that "front-end" is right now defined as "HTML/CSS/JS". Being good at the first two is a completely separate skill from being able to write and design software in a programming language like JS. I see much better results from designers who can deliver built templates than I do from those who can just deliver photoshop files

Re: A Proposal: Renaming Backend/Frontend to Application/UI Developers

#34

Post by craigching »

ebbv wrote: post #11

An application is not what most people consider an application without its UI.

My comment was going to be "Disagree, the UI is part of the application. Next?" but since you said it first, I'll piggyback on your comment ;)

The post talks about "application logic" as being the backend, but we have plenty of "application logic" in our rich web UIs, so I just don't see it.

EDIT: Changed "rich UIs" to "rich web UIs" to clarify that I actually am talking about the article's domain. Not that the comment isn't relevant in other domains too, though.

Re: A Proposal: Renaming Backend/Frontend to Application/UI Developers

#35

Post by joshuacc »

My employer uses the term "UI Developer" for front end roles, and I've seen that become increasingly common. But I think there are a different set of expectations that come with that title than "Front End Developer." The most prominent being greater facility with JavaScript.

Re: A Proposal: Renaming Backend/Frontend to Application/UI Developers

#36

Post by darren0 »

I feel so many articles on hn have a myopic view of software architecture. You see this with "full stack" engineer job postings. The desired skills are usually something like RoR, ember, and backbone. I'm sorry, but from my perspective, that is all frontend development. This article refers to backend developers as "sending only a HTML document as a result to the browser." Again, in my world, if your sending HTML, mostl likely that is frontend.

Backend has nothing to do with HTML or any presentation logic. Backend is services.

I know this is a rather unfair judgement but so many articles seem to indicate RoR+JS/CSS+DB is the "full" picture of software architecture. But really, that's frontend. There is a whole beautiful world of backend distributed services missing.

Re: A Proposal: Renaming Backend/Frontend to Application/UI Developers

#37

Post by bguthrie »

michaelochurch wrote: post #16

Zed Shaw already solved this problem: http://programming-motherfucker.com . What made programming great (before the Douchebag Invasion came in and we were divided into these stupid warring camps) is now what makes "data science" attractive: the generalist flair and the ability to pick your projects and move around the economy by your own sail. By the way, I personally hate the term "software engineer", at least as co…

I worked for one of the places Zed is describing. Like many of Zed's rants, it has a pleasant, self-righteous ring to it, but the problem is misdiagnosed and its solution is no help at all. I'll say no more.

Re: A Proposal: Renaming Backend/Frontend to Application/UI Developers

#38

Post by Zigurd »

In some cases all the intelligence is behind the RESTful interface, and, so, that's what you could call "the app." In other cases, like synthesizing traffic and bus location data to predict when the bus will arrive, the "app" can be in the device, especially when there is no Web interface presenting the same synthesis. Games can be entirely in an endpoint device, as can any complex application that cannot depend on pervasive connectivity.

Needs more thought.

Re: A Proposal: Renaming Backend/Frontend to Application/UI Developers

#40

Post by Shorel »

michaelochurch wrote: post #16

Zed Shaw already solved this problem: http://programming-motherfucker.com . What made programming great (before the Douchebag Invasion came in and we were divided into these stupid warring camps) is now what makes "data science" attractive: the generalist flair and the ability to pick your projects and move around the economy by your own sail. By the way, I personally hate the term "software engineer", at least as co…

Going by definitions, if you get paid for something, then you are a professional.

You may not be a real engineer, but a professional you are.

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