Nerds, we need to have a talk (2011) • Hacker News Board

Re: Nerds, we need to have a talk (2011)

#41

Post by michaelochurch » Thu, May 02, 2013, 6:44 PM UTC

mtp0101 wrote: post #28

This post is extremely stupid. What is this, the first grade? If you can't take honest criticism, you suck. If you think computer technology is full of mean people, try working in finance. My peers don't hesitate to give me honest criticism and that's one of the things I like most about CS. Maybe you should start your own company called "we should be super nice to each other all the time" and have your product be an…

If you think computer technology is full of mean people, try working in finance.

Finance: saying "you fucked up" means "I respect you enough to offer honest criticism, and here's what you did that I don't like."

Tech startup: saying "you're awesome" means "I'd slit your throat for a 0.05%[0] more in equity. You're awesome because I'll get promoted at your expense."

[0] A nickel. As in, Shadow from FF6 and "He'd slit his mama's throat for..."

Re: Nerds, we need to have a talk (2011)

#42

Post by axelfreeman » Thu, May 02, 2013, 6:48 PM UTC

I have a german blog who totally pushes this attitude forwards. It's called 1337core.de. A self-irony netculture blog. It is much about hacking, script kiddies, anonymous, fail netpolitics. Kind of stupid but my stupid thing.

But seriously i think this problem comes from the lag, that we don't see the people we are talking about in front of us. It's just a device. No feelings. We hate in this machine and get no direct feedback. We have to learn that the people we are flaming about are living in this world and can propably read it. I have made this mistake a couple of times but i learned and use it alone for joking.

If you want to understand this problem you have to understand psychology, the interface-feedback-problem and group dynamic.

Re: Nerds, we need to have a talk (2011)

#43

Post by mtowle » Thu, May 02, 2013, 6:49 PM UTC

RougeFemme wrote: post #39

jradakov wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took it to be more about nerds online. I haven't met too many people face to face that are even a tenth as rude as 90% of the people I see online. Of course, I arbitrarily picked those numbers. I'm going to point that out before I get flamed.

Louis CK touched upon this in his "Oh MY God" show on HBO. Empirically speaking, people tend to act with less accountability when they're inside of cars, behind protective barriers, including the internet.

"No Such Thing as Elevator Rage"

NOSTER. Coined and minted - because nerds are overly acronym-shy, I think

Re: Nerds, we need to have a talk (2011)

#44

Post by amykhar » Thu, May 02, 2013, 6:49 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #32

Seriously, America is going to drown in shoulder-patting and hooray cheering. This taboo on negative opinions is ridiculous. We're teaching entire generations that we cannot fail as long as we try hard enough, and that it's the attempt that counts. Seriously, screw that. It is a vital skill to be able to filter through feedback, take the useful parts to heart, and shrug about low, nasty, useless comments. To learn fr…

I don't think the article was seeking shoulder patting. Just a helpful spirit and some manners.

Re: Nerds, we need to have a talk (2011)

#45

Post by mtowle » Thu, May 02, 2013, 6:50 PM UTC

graeme wrote: post #37

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2322696 (I feel older now to realize I've been on here for two years, long enough to remember the previous submission)

Care to comment on whether internet nerds have gotten nicer or meaner since 2011?

Re: Nerds, we need to have a talk (2011)

#46

Post by graeme » Thu, May 02, 2013, 6:52 PM UTC

mtowle wrote: post #45

graeme wrote: post #37

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2322696 (I feel older now to realize I've been on here for two years, long enough to remember the previous submission)

Care to comment on whether internet nerds have gotten nicer or meaner since 2011?

Not a clue.

Re: Nerds, we need to have a talk (2011)

#47

Post by codegeek » Thu, May 02, 2013, 6:55 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #32

Seriously, America is going to drown in shoulder-patting and hooray cheering. This taboo on negative opinions is ridiculous. We're teaching entire generations that we cannot fail as long as we try hard enough, and that it's the attempt that counts. Seriously, screw that. It is a vital skill to be able to filter through feedback, take the useful parts to heart, and shrug about low, nasty, useless comments. To learn fr…

"....it's the attempt that counts. Seriously, screw that."

"To learn from mistakes and do better next time. Why is that bad?"

You said both things. Attempting does not mean you will always succeed. You could still fail but it does matter that you tried. And sure, you learn from mistakes and do better. So I would say that don't screw the attempting part. Also, you are probably being a little hard on this post by saying "shoulder patting".

Re: Nerds, we need to have a talk (2011)

#48

Post by usr » Thu, May 02, 2013, 6:56 PM UTC

rational_indian wrote: post #29

What do you think about stackoverflow.com?

As it currently stands, this question is not a good fit for our Q&A format. We expect answers to be supported by facts, references, or specific expertise, but this question will likely solicit debate, arguments, polling, or extended discussion.

Though in all seriousness, I've seen closed questions provide a lot of good information on something in their answers despite people feeling the question wasn't a good fit. In some ways it's like closing a question is a form of what the article is talking about, though I do understand the need for those rules on there.

Re: Nerds, we need to have a talk (2011)

#49

Post by dasil003 » Thu, May 02, 2013, 6:58 PM UTC

Honestly I think this is just the impression one gets because nerds do more of everything online combined with the fact that they tend to know a lot about specific things.

Look, there are absolutely a lot of asshole nerds out there. A lot of guys who went through hell in high school and turned into comic book guy as a defense mechanism and just never grew up (a lot of people from all walks of life never grow up). Okay, but I don't think those people are representative of geek communities. I think by and large criticism is constructive and nerds are supportive of beginners. Maybe we don't sugarcoat things as much as would be to some people's taste, but that's not an asshole quality in and of itself. Rather I think the impression comes from the fact that it's hard to ignore assholes, and there are always going to be a number of them in any large community. People say HN is overly critical, but I think if you look carefully most of critical posts are actually fairly even-handed and not overtly mean; but if you have 20 of them all coming from different angles, and you sprinkle it with a few true asshole remarks, the resulting impression can be quite harsh.

Re: Nerds, we need to have a talk (2011)

#50

Post by jquery » Thu, May 02, 2013, 7:00 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #32

Seriously, America is going to drown in shoulder-patting and hooray cheering. This taboo on negative opinions is ridiculous. We're teaching entire generations that we cannot fail as long as we try hard enough, and that it's the attempt that counts. Seriously, screw that. It is a vital skill to be able to filter through feedback, take the useful parts to heart, and shrug about low, nasty, useless comments. To learn fr…

I come to HN precisely because the comments are incisive and questioning. It's a breath of fresh air and trains me to analyze ideas more effectively. If that makes me an "anti-social curmudgeon" by society's capricious standards, then so be it.