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Adobe wants Ninite to stop rolling out crapware-free Flash

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Adobe wants Ninite to stop rolling out crapware-free Flash

#91

Post by Tuna-Fish »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #10

This article is a bit... lacking. First off, the Flash updater on Windows works quite well on modern Windows systems. Second off, Ninite isn't just some good Samaritan, they're a for-profit company. Third, and related to the second, Ninite's updater costs $10 a year while Adobe Flash's built-in updater is free. They also have a Ninite Pro version that supports remote updates and installs and costs $240 to $2,220 per…

> First off, the Flash updater on Windows works quite well on modern Windows systems

No, it does not. Simply put, giving end-users popups for system maintenance is flatly unacceptable.

Re: Adobe wants Ninite to stop rolling out crapware-free Flash

#92

Post by astrodust »

mistermumble wrote: post #90
astrodust wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Works quite well" apparently means "pops up all the time about yet another national security threatening flaw that needs to be patched urgently" and "crashes frequently for no apparent reason when trying to perform said updates." I guess that's marketing for you.

Also left unexplained is why Adobe needs to constantly update Reader. The PDF spec has not changed in forever. Why should this software need updating if there are no changes in functionality or spec compliance?

Security problems as far as I know. Many governmental workers have it installed, so it's used as a spear phishing vector.

"Re: UN Resolution #XYZ (Attached PDF)" is how these things play out. You open the PDF and your computer develops, ah, magical new capabilities, like sending copies of everything you do to Eastern Europe or China.

Re: Adobe wants Ninite to stop rolling out crapware-free Flash

#93

Post by kbenson »

protospork wrote: post #25
JohnTHaller wrote: post #10

This article is a bit... lacking. First off, the Flash updater on Windows works quite well on modern Windows systems. Second off, Ninite isn't just some good Samaritan, they're a for-profit company. Third, and related to the second, Ninite's updater costs $10 a year while Adobe Flash's built-in updater is free. They also have a Ninite Pro version that supports remote updates and installs and costs $240 to $2,220 per…

> First off, the Flash updater on Windows works quite well on modern Windows systems. Speak for yourself; I only ever see it on system startup. I only reboot once every few months (and it doesn't respond to waking up from standby), but there's a new Adobe security panic every two weeks or so, so that's not really acceptable. Plus it opens as a pop-under window for some reason, so I'm generally unaware of it until I'v…

> The 'stealing revenue' argument is definitely valid, but in Adobe's case it's such a hateful method that I can't sympathize at all.

Is it? If their (Piriform, as in the original example) model is based around providing a service for a product they release for free, but someone else can provide that service better, then perhaps they need to re-think their business model. Either be way cheaper, or provide something that Ninite can't or won't. Maybe even partner with Ninite and explain that your product can't exist without that revenue, so why not just integrate deeper and share a bit of revenue, rather than having it fail and upset customers of both parties.

Re: Adobe wants Ninite to stop rolling out crapware-free Flash

#94

Post by icebraining »

Nursie wrote: post #36
webjprgm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. And trying to shut it down is litigating, legislating, and dealing down to "no-real-competition".

So in your free market there is no copyright on software?

Free markets and government-granted monopolies are at odds, yes.

http://mises.org/journals/jls/15_2/15_2_1.pdf

Re: Adobe wants Ninite to stop rolling out crapware-free Flash

#95

Post by l0c0b0x »

m0nty wrote: post #71
doron wrote: post #54

We use Ninite Pro extensively within our network. Not only does it allow remote updates (whereas locally it requires administrative rights most users don't have) it also allows disabling of update notification and disabling of shortcuts. The update process Adobe employs is a nag for admins, the constant flow of acrobat updates and flash updates is a bombardment of announcements which most users in a corporate environ…

As a sys admin in a school, Ninite is awesome. I really don't want installers and updaters popping up in front of small children and (often, technically illiterate) staff, and Ninite facilitates this. At the same time, it makes it easy for me to update software at a time to suit me - usually the holidays. The fact it denies Adobe the chance to trick me (or my users) into installing additional, unwanted software is a…

(School Sys admin here too)... We don't use Ninite, but at my old job I looked at the implementation and liked the fact that you can have a local-central repository (This saves bandwidth and keeps things in our control).

Re: Adobe wants Ninite to stop rolling out crapware-free Flash

#96

Post by w1ntermute »

swies wrote: post #88
w1ntermute wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Ninite isn't redistributing the installer, is it? It's downloading it directly from Adobe's site when the user runs it, just like if the user were to manually download Flash.

That's right, we did no redistribution or modification of their software. Ninite just automates things you would do. But, publishers can license their software under whatever terms they want. They could forbid this sort of automation in the license, or even forbid Ninite specifically by name. As far as we can tell there's no right to automate your own machine that prohibitions like that would be violating. I think th…

> publishers can license their software under whatever terms they want. They could forbid this sort of automation in the license, or even forbid Ninite specifically by name. As far as we can tell there's no right to automate your own machine that prohibitions like that would be violating.

You're referring to the EULA, right? Is that enforceable in court? I've heard mixed opinions in the past on this topic from legal experts.

Re: Adobe wants Ninite to stop rolling out crapware-free Flash

#97

Post by drivebyacct2 »

pyre wrote: post #51
Finster wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Netflix moving to HTML5, and Youtube already supporting HTML5, there's fewer reasons to even bother with Flash or Silverlight plugins.

Except for the videos on YouTube that don't support HTML5 yet. From here[1]: | Additional Restrictions (we are working on these!) | | - Some videos with ads are not yet supported (they | will play in the Flash player) | | - On Firefox and Opera, only videos with WebM | transcodes will play in HTML5 | | - If you've opted in to other testtube experiments, | you may not get the HTML5 player (Feather is | supported, thou…

That experiment is frankly just old, and wrong.

Re: Adobe wants Ninite to stop rolling out crapware-free Flash

#98

Post by format »

samstave wrote: post #74
swies wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First I want to say thanks! We love your work at PortableApps.com and send people there whenever they ask us to add portable software. Our value is keeping the catalog up-to-date and putting a nice interface around the updating process. Not ad-blocking. We actively uncheck toolbars for maybe 5 apps. If those apps removed their toolbar offers people would still use Ninite to track updates and automate work. On profits…

Ninite is fantastic. There simply should not be any naysayers - the naysayers cannot provide the experience Ninite provides. Ninite's ability to group many products into a singular downloadable installer is heaven. Keep up the awesome work.

Not being able to choose where things get installed killed Ninite for me. Their reasoning is "where an app is installed is an implementation detail that users shouldn't worry about." My SSD can only hold so much, and I don't see the benefit of having a browser or file sharing app on an SSD. That seems like a detail I should care about.

Re: Adobe wants Ninite to stop rolling out crapware-free Flash

#99

Post by pixelcloud »

DannyBee wrote: post #77
w1ntermute wrote: post #56

Can anyone with a legal background explain if Adobe can actually force Ninite to change the way their software works? AFAICT, they can't. Why did this guy give in to Adobe? Because they've got an army of lawyers they can attack him with?

Yes, they can legally stop ninite from redistributing the installer using the installer license terms if they like. It's a dick move, but not illegal

I really don't see the difference between doing this and using something like SCCM to handle updates.

You are simply deploying the MSI and/or applying MSTs to the file. Configurations can be done after the package install...

If ninite cant do it, i dont see why MS/Citrix/Wyze would be able to.

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