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What a stupid idea

dcurt.is

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Re: What a stupid idea

#191

Post by dakrisht »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #139
wtvanhest wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wrong. I'm describing the value I get. The fact that I get value means it does have value. My guess is that some of the other millions of users also get value. That is a fair guess. His/her comment is ridiculous.

Right, and my point was simply that you getting value does not invalidate the argument that this may or may not be bad for humanity. I'm sure pretty much everyone who uses it gets a non-zero amount of value from it, but the person, right or wrong, was arguing about the negatives outweighing the value, not whether or not there was value.

Exactly. You might get value from doing heroin like millions of others, but that doesn't means it's good for people/humanity. I'm not saying FB doesn't have value (it does because it connects people) but I, for one, remember the world being a better place without FB as many others would most likely agree here on HN. More importantly, innovation had more value when 1000 people were trying to create software/hardware/services to help people vs. 1000 instagram and social networking clones for a quick Series round or exit.

Re: What a stupid idea

#192

Post by dakrisht »

green7ea wrote: post #124
jdietrich wrote: post #104

Success is not validation of an idea and we should be ashamed to think so. Cigarettes are one of the most successful consumer products on earth. Inhaling a lungful of carcinogenic smoke several hundred times a day is undoubtedly a stupid idea. Tobacco has made a small number of people incomprehensibly rich, to the great detriment of humanity. Personally, I think nearly all of these 'social' startups are bad news. Not…

The part that got to me was: "They saw the future and they built it." These applications are toys, not the future. They may be well built, popular, amusing but they are still toys. When I think of someone who sees the future and tries to build it, the first name that comes up is Elon Musk with SpaceX. There are others. Saying an iPhone exclusive application that lets you share 4 second videos is the future is simply…

Vine is probably the dumbest application of the year. Unfortunately, it's not the last.

Re: What a stupid idea

#193

Post by zimpenfish »

justinhj wrote: post #153
setrofim_ wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tobacco was invented in 5000 BC according to wikipedia. At that point in time it had basically none of the bad side effects you mention due to shorter life spans. It probably had numerous positive side effects. Another reason that tobacco historically had "basically none of the bad side effects" is that people didn't smoke it nearly in the quantities they do today. Then a few startups (well, they weren't called tha…

> You mean, you couldn't care less, right? :P (Sorry, that particular Americanism is a pet peeve of mine.) "I could care less" is an American idiom, and this is a US site. Ad hominem.

I always read "I could care less" as "I could care less ... but that would require expending actual effort and no."

Then again, I'm not a knee-jerking grammarian prescriptivist.

Re: What a stupid idea

#195

Post by ohwp »

jdietrich wrote: post #104

Success is not validation of an idea and we should be ashamed to think so. Cigarettes are one of the most successful consumer products on earth. Inhaling a lungful of carcinogenic smoke several hundred times a day is undoubtedly a stupid idea. Tobacco has made a small number of people incomprehensibly rich, to the great detriment of humanity. Personally, I think nearly all of these 'social' startups are bad news. Not…

I think most of us agree that good ideas are solving problems. So could it be that cigarettes, Pinterest and Vine solve problems?

Maybe they do. Cigarettes are solving the problem of easy nicotine intake to release stress.

I think (not sure) a lot of successful new-media companies are solving the "low self-esteem" problem a lot of people cope with these days. They act like a drug.

But ofcourse a better way is to solve the source of the problems: remove stress from society, change culture in a way that we can become who we are (whole).

Re: What a stupid idea

#196

Post by daleharvey »

ohwp wrote: post #195
jdietrich wrote: post #104

Success is not validation of an idea and we should be ashamed to think so. Cigarettes are one of the most successful consumer products on earth. Inhaling a lungful of carcinogenic smoke several hundred times a day is undoubtedly a stupid idea. Tobacco has made a small number of people incomprehensibly rich, to the great detriment of humanity. Personally, I think nearly all of these 'social' startups are bad news. Not…

I think most of us agree that good ideas are solving problems. So could it be that cigarettes, Pinterest and Vine solve problems? Maybe they do. Cigarettes are solving the problem of easy nicotine intake to release stress. I think (not sure) a lot of successful new-media companies are solving the "low self-esteem" problem a lot of people cope with these days. They act like a drug. But ofcourse a better way is to solv…

Cigarettes dont relieve stress, they induce it, the stress smoking relieves is craving a cigarette, people who dont smoke dont have that craving.

(someone currently giving up)

Re: What a stupid idea

#197

Post by jdietrich »

wtvanhest wrote: post #123
jdietrich wrote: post #104

Success is not validation of an idea and we should be ashamed to think so. Cigarettes are one of the most successful consumer products on earth. Inhaling a lungful of carcinogenic smoke several hundred times a day is undoubtedly a stupid idea. Tobacco has made a small number of people incomprehensibly rich, to the great detriment of humanity. Personally, I think nearly all of these 'social' startups are bad news. Not…

I'm going to say it first, I'm sure others will be thinking it. This is the WORST type of comment on HN. Tobacco was invented in 5000 BC according to wikipedia. At that point in time it had basically none of the bad side effects you mention due to shorter life spans. It probably had numerous positive side effects. Now you don't like facebook??? Well, honestly, I do. I like it to keep in touch with people and it had r…

Tobacco was not a particularly great cause of morbidity and mortality until the invention of the cigarette rolling machine. The cheap, mass-produced cigarette offered an instant hit of nicotine which was more convenient than pipes and more affordable than cigars.

Tobacco is a natural leaf that became a mass killer because it was packaged in small, easy to consume units that provided an instant dopamine hit, then relentlessly marketed. I feel it is an extremely good analogy to the current crop of 'social' startups.

Businesses exist in order to make profits for their shareholders; The benefit they provide for their customers or society is merely a happy coincidence. Until the Pure Food and Drug Act, most medicines did more harm than good. Asbestos was incredibly profitable for a great many businesses. I have every right to criticise a business if I believe their product is harmful, regardless of how popular or successful that business might be. To do so does not make me judgemental or immature, but simply an engaged citizen. The belief that all successful products are socially beneficial is clearly absurd.

Re: What a stupid idea

#198

Post by tomhoward »

jdietrich wrote: post #197
wtvanhest wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to say it first, I'm sure others will be thinking it. This is the WORST type of comment on HN. Tobacco was invented in 5000 BC according to wikipedia. At that point in time it had basically none of the bad side effects you mention due to shorter life spans. It probably had numerous positive side effects. Now you don't like facebook??? Well, honestly, I do. I like it to keep in touch with people and it had r…

Tobacco was not a particularly great cause of morbidity and mortality until the invention of the cigarette rolling machine. The cheap, mass-produced cigarette offered an instant hit of nicotine which was more convenient than pipes and more affordable than cigars. Tobacco is a natural leaf that became a mass killer because it was packaged in small, easy to consume units that provided an instant dopamine hit, then rele…

Yeah, ok.

But none of this is what Dustin's post was about.

The post was about people asking him if he thought their product could be successful, and how he mistakenly dismissed them as being destined to fail.

Your views maybe valid, but your commentary is off topic.

Re: What a stupid idea

#199

Post by restlessmedia »

jdietrich wrote: post #104

Success is not validation of an idea and we should be ashamed to think so. Cigarettes are one of the most successful consumer products on earth. Inhaling a lungful of carcinogenic smoke several hundred times a day is undoubtedly a stupid idea. Tobacco has made a small number of people incomprehensibly rich, to the great detriment of humanity. Personally, I think nearly all of these 'social' startups are bad news. Not…

+1

"Tobacco has made a small number of people incomprehensibly rich, to the great detriment of humanity."

incredible isn't it how we still allow manufacturers to sells products (at considerable profit) like this that have been proven to make people ill, or at worse, die.

Re: What a stupid idea

#200

Post by TeMPOraL »

ohwp wrote: post #195
jdietrich wrote: post #104

Success is not validation of an idea and we should be ashamed to think so. Cigarettes are one of the most successful consumer products on earth. Inhaling a lungful of carcinogenic smoke several hundred times a day is undoubtedly a stupid idea. Tobacco has made a small number of people incomprehensibly rich, to the great detriment of humanity. Personally, I think nearly all of these 'social' startups are bad news. Not…

I think most of us agree that good ideas are solving problems. So could it be that cigarettes, Pinterest and Vine solve problems? Maybe they do. Cigarettes are solving the problem of easy nicotine intake to release stress. I think (not sure) a lot of successful new-media companies are solving the "low self-esteem" problem a lot of people cope with these days. They act like a drug. But ofcourse a better way is to solv…

> I think most of us agree that good ideas are solving problems.

I'd agree that some good ideas (i.e. ideas that survive) are solving problems. But "solving problems" is only a (decent) heuristic for good ideas, not something that causes them to be good. Satellites stay in orbit by tricking laws of physics into not crashing them on the ground, and not because they're useful for us. In the same way, ideas survive by tricking social dynamics, not because they're solving some problems.

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