Obama to Name Tom Wheeler, a Former Lobbyist, to Head FCC • Hacker News Board

Re: Obama to Name Tom Wheeler, a Former Lobbyist, to Head FCC

#21

Post by CrazedGeek » Wed, May 01, 2013, 5:31 AM UTC

greghinch wrote: post #18

rayiner wrote: post #8

It's interesting what the headline chooses to mention. He was a lobbyist from 1979-1984, but he's also a venture capitalist and entrepreneur who has founded multiple telecommunications companies: "Mr. Wheeler is a managing director at Core Capital Partners, a Washington investment firm with $350 million under management. He has helped to oversee the firm’s investments in an array of start-ups and small- to mid-size t…

Sadly, the WSJ has just another soundboard for Rupert Murdoch's FUD. Doing whatever they can do to make a story more polarizing.

(EDIT: Disregard the following, see ordinary's reply) Not that I disagree about the WSJ, but it seems that the lobbyist part of the headline was added by the submitter.

Re: Obama to Name Tom Wheeler, a Former Lobbyist, to Head FCC

#22

Post by spikels » Wed, May 01, 2013, 5:33 AM UTC

supercanuck wrote: post #11

duncan_bayne wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This notion that industry needs regulating keeps ending us up in one disaster after another. Who was it who said "when buying and selling are legislated, the first things to be bought and sold are the legislators?"

How would the free market prevent the Fertilizer plant from exploding and killing all those people?

Explosions are very bad for business not only is your valuable plant destroyed but you can't make fertilizer until you build a new one. Existing and potential employees would demand higher wages and/or increased safety measures after an accident. Neither the free free nor a regulatory body can reliably prevent all accidents. Probably has more to do with how the interested parties value life and property.

Re: Obama to Name Tom Wheeler, a Former Lobbyist, to Head FCC

#23

Post by DArcMattr » Wed, May 01, 2013, 5:34 AM UTC

duncan_bayne wrote: post #10

ck2 wrote: post #4

This notion that each industry knows best how to regulate itself keeps ending us up in one disaster after another.

This notion that industry needs regulating keeps ending us up in one disaster after another. Who was it who said "when buying and selling are legislated, the first things to be bought and sold are the legislators?"

P.J. O'Rourke said it. Nothing else explains regulatory capture so succinctly.

Re: Obama to Name Tom Wheeler, a Former Lobbyist, to Head FCC

#24

Post by kalleboo » Wed, May 01, 2013, 5:49 AM UTC

spikels wrote: post #22

supercanuck wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would the free market prevent the Fertilizer plant from exploding and killing all those people?

Explosions are very bad for business not only is your valuable plant destroyed but you can't make fertilizer until you build a new one. Existing and potential employees would demand higher wages and/or increased safety measures after an accident. Neither the free free nor a regulatory body can reliably prevent all accidents. Probably has more to do with how the interested parties value life and property.

That's a great theory, but real life has shown time and time again that businesses don't always act in their own long-term interests and individuals aren't rational actors. And people aren't satisfied when the "cost of business" to reach the end-goal of having poor businesses weeded out is people's lives.

Re: Obama to Name Tom Wheeler, a Former Lobbyist, to Head FCC

#25

Post by tantalor » Wed, May 01, 2013, 5:49 AM UTC

supercanuck wrote: post #11

duncan_bayne wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This notion that industry needs regulating keeps ending us up in one disaster after another. Who was it who said "when buying and selling are legislated, the first things to be bought and sold are the legislators?"

How would the free market prevent the Fertilizer plant from exploding and killing all those people?

The industry under discussion (communications) generally does not risk lives, i.e., no catastrophe when you screw up.

Some types of industry do risk lives. Don't confuse safety regulations with other business regulations. They serve completely different purposes.

We should regulate the hell out of fertilizer depots, power generators, medical software, flight. For good reason.

Re: Obama to Name Tom Wheeler, a Former Lobbyist, to Head FCC

#26

Post by ck2 » Wed, May 01, 2013, 5:51 AM UTC

spikels wrote: post #22

supercanuck wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would the free market prevent the Fertilizer plant from exploding and killing all those people?

Explosions are very bad for business not only is your valuable plant destroyed but you can't make fertilizer until you build a new one. Existing and potential employees would demand higher wages and/or increased safety measures after an accident. Neither the free free nor a regulatory body can reliably prevent all accidents. Probably has more to do with how the interested parties value life and property.

Except they work on the idea "oh that will never happen", ala BP oil rig explosions.

They refused to build a blast wall and congress defunded inspections so the last one was in the 90s so there was never any enforcement.

Re: Obama to Name Tom Wheeler, a Former Lobbyist, to Head FCC

#27

Post by icelancer » Wed, May 01, 2013, 5:52 AM UTC

supercanuck wrote: post #11

duncan_bayne wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This notion that industry needs regulating keeps ending us up in one disaster after another. Who was it who said "when buying and selling are legislated, the first things to be bought and sold are the legislators?"

How would the free market prevent the Fertilizer plant from exploding and killing all those people?

How did the regulated market prevent it from blowing up?

Re: Obama to Name Tom Wheeler, a Former Lobbyist, to Head FCC

#28

Post by unclenoriega » Wed, May 01, 2013, 5:56 AM UTC

spikels wrote: post #17

Samuel_Michon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. Even though there are many political parties[1] in the US, there are only two that have the funds and mindshare to win presidential elections. I like that independents like Bernie Sanders[2] and Angus King[3] manage to get into the senate, it provides a little bit of hope for change. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_th... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders…

Don't Sanders & King almost always vote with the democrats? I would like to see real independents that vote sometimes with one party sometimes with the other and sometimes against both. That would be a true independent.

As for Sanders, given the two-party system, I would expect a senator left of the Democrats to mostly vote with the Democrats just as I would expect a senator to the right of the Republicans to mostly vote with the Republicans. We need more political parties on the left, right, and center, but I don't think limited options makes him a false independent. As for King, he's only got a few months of a voting record, but it makes sense to caucus with the majority given the choice.

Re: Obama to Name Tom Wheeler, a Former Lobbyist, to Head FCC

#29

Post by kalleboo » Wed, May 01, 2013, 6:04 AM UTC

duncan_bayne wrote: post #10

ck2 wrote: post #4

This notion that each industry knows best how to regulate itself keeps ending us up in one disaster after another.

This notion that industry needs regulating keeps ending us up in one disaster after another. Who was it who said "when buying and selling are legislated, the first things to be bought and sold are the legislators?"

That would be an interesting experiment - fully unregulated airwaves. Imagine AT&T jamming Verizon's 3G signal, private transmitter hijacking terminals, etc.

Re: Obama to Name Tom Wheeler, a Former Lobbyist, to Head FCC

#30

Post by Kroem3r » Wed, May 01, 2013, 6:09 AM UTC

duncan_bayne wrote: post #10

ck2 wrote: post #4

This notion that each industry knows best how to regulate itself keeps ending us up in one disaster after another.

This notion that industry needs regulating keeps ending us up in one disaster after another. Who was it who said "when buying and selling are legislated, the first things to be bought and sold are the legislators?"

I get the point of view. I disagree with it, but even more, I find it jarring to apply a faith-based approach to thinking about these things in lieu of a critical assessment one. As if it were sufficient to cut through all the tangle and uncertainty with, like, "Daniel 11:3 'And a great king shall stand up ...'" and think that was case and point.

What's more, it's hardly clear that you've got this proverb the right way around: It seems as likely that corrupt legislators create regulation to enrich them and their kind, as opposed to well-intentioned regulation leading to the corruption of legislators. I've cut out the middle - corrupt legislators creating corrupt legislation - which is what we actually have and also the sort of murk that doesn't lend itself to witticism.