Avoiding Burnout • Hacker News Board

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#81

Post by _nxnx » Tue, Apr 30, 2013, 7:39 PM UTC

outworlder wrote: post #76

ahoyhere wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people in the know now understand that what we call "burnout" is not a psychological disorder at all, but sub-clinical[1] adrenal fatigue caused by stress, period. In other countries with superior medical system integration, like Austria/Germany, this is an accepted medical fact. If you stress out a rat long enough, its adrenal glands will actually bleed. If you stress out a human long enough, you cause first a h…

> Being unable to get out of bed. Being unable to make the simplest of decisions without feeling like you're having a panic attack. Being unable to read, because it's too much information at once. Being unable to watch TV shows that have too many "facts" in them. All of the above -- including simple questions of "What do you want for lunch, honey?" -- triggered panic-like attacks in me, who'd never had a panic attack…

Unfortunately there is no standard blood test for CFS/burnout. I agree with Amy that cortisol might be useful, but the problem is that it isn't always a reliable indicator of illness.

Anyway, just keep doing what you are doing and you will gradually recover. For more info, see: http://www.mind-body-health.net/recovery.html (a site I developed 10 years ago after recovering myself).

Unfortunately this is a very misunderstood area of medicine because doctors (and patients) like to pigeonhole illnesses as either physical or psychological, and psychiatric/psychosomatic illness has a very bad negative stereotype.

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#82

Post by _nxnx » Tue, Apr 30, 2013, 7:47 PM UTC

ZirconCode wrote: post #10

Judging from the comments and the articles, it seems like I've never had a proper burnout. I always recover within days, this seems to be a longer matter however. The author talks about warning signs, and many of you mention you can feel it coming, even two weeks advanced. Would it be possible to describe this to someone like me? Not the burnout, but the warning signs?

Google 'chronic fatigue syndrome' to see what the end-point of burnout is like.

Some warning signs: depression, anxiety, insomnia, loss of appetite, constant illnesses, dreading going into work, racing heartrate, etc. Although to be honest by the time you've got to that point you are already pretty burned out and you're well on your way to CFS.

My solution for the past 10 years has been to live my life so there is little/no possibility of ever having burnout (and it has worked :)

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#83

Post by outworlder » Tue, Apr 30, 2013, 7:57 PM UTC

_nxnx wrote: post #81

outworlder wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being unable to get out of bed. Being unable to make the simplest of decisions without feeling like you're having a panic attack. Being unable to read, because it's too much information at once. Being unable to watch TV shows that have too many "facts" in them. All of the above -- including simple questions of "What do you want for lunch, honey?" -- triggered panic-like attacks in me, who'd never had a panic attack…

Unfortunately there is no standard blood test for CFS/burnout. I agree with Amy that cortisol might be useful, but the problem is that it isn't always a reliable indicator of illness. Anyway, just keep doing what you are doing and you will gradually recover. For more info, see: http://www.mind-body-health.net/recovery.html (a site I developed 10 years ago after recovering myself). Unfortunately this is a very misunde…

Thanks for the link.

> Unfortunately this is a very misunderstood area of medicine because doctors (and patients) like to pigeonhole illnesses as either physical or psychological, and psychiatric/psychosomatic illness has a very bad negative stereotype.

That is, in fact, what I was trying to do. I actually said that to one of the doctors (something along the lines of 'I want to rule out physical issues first').

Thanks again. I'll write about it and submit to HN once I have finished climbing out of the hole :)

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#84

Post by ZirconCode » Tue, Apr 30, 2013, 8:33 PM UTC

_nxnx wrote: post #82

ZirconCode wrote: post #10

Judging from the comments and the articles, it seems like I've never had a proper burnout. I always recover within days, this seems to be a longer matter however. The author talks about warning signs, and many of you mention you can feel it coming, even two weeks advanced. Would it be possible to describe this to someone like me? Not the burnout, but the warning signs?

Google 'chronic fatigue syndrome' to see what the end-point of burnout is like. Some warning signs: depression, anxiety, insomnia, loss of appetite, constant illnesses, dreading going into work, racing heartrate, etc. Although to be honest by the time you've got to that point you are already pretty burned out and you're well on your way to CFS. My solution for the past 10 years has been to live my life so there is li…

Ah thanks, those were the pointers I was looking for =)

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#85

Post by jennita » Tue, Apr 30, 2013, 9:33 PM UTC

outworlder wrote: post #76

ahoyhere wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people in the know now understand that what we call "burnout" is not a psychological disorder at all, but sub-clinical[1] adrenal fatigue caused by stress, period. In other countries with superior medical system integration, like Austria/Germany, this is an accepted medical fact. If you stress out a rat long enough, its adrenal glands will actually bleed. If you stress out a human long enough, you cause first a h…

> Being unable to get out of bed. Being unable to make the simplest of decisions without feeling like you're having a panic attack. Being unable to read, because it's too much information at once. Being unable to watch TV shows that have too many "facts" in them. All of the above -- including simple questions of "What do you want for lunch, honey?" -- triggered panic-like attacks in me, who'd never had a panic attack…

I've been through something very similar to this as well and it was a severe depression for me. It was due to pushing myself too much while going through chemo, but it's possible that it can happen with any major life change (like leaving a job). I wrote about my story of depression http://jensablelopez.com/depression-what-summer-made-of/ - not sure if that helps at all.

But I agree with others, go see a different doctor. Perhaps try a Naturopath. They'll help you without giving you drugs.

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#86

Post by bconway » Tue, Apr 30, 2013, 10:22 PM UTC

Excellent post. One of the top reasons I don't let employees work more than 40 hours a week, and start kicking people out of the office at 5:30 (if they're still there).

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#87

Post by gertef » Wed, May 01, 2013, 12:20 AM UTC

ttunguz wrote: post #56

Coincidentally, NPR profiled a productivity researcher from HBS this morning. (I haven't been able to find the segment yet, but when they post it I will link to it.) According to her research, the most important driver of productivity is motivation which aligns with Daniel's comment. Her recommendation for improving motivation? Use tools like IDoneThis to track what you've accomplished each day and take the time now…

What if your Snippets just say "tried to fix stuff. still broken" over and over and over again?

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#88

Post by ahoyhere » Wed, May 01, 2013, 12:40 AM UTC

_nxnx wrote: post #80

ahoyhere wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people in the know now understand that what we call "burnout" is not a psychological disorder at all, but sub-clinical[1] adrenal fatigue caused by stress, period. In other countries with superior medical system integration, like Austria/Germany, this is an accepted medical fact. If you stress out a rat long enough, its adrenal glands will actually bleed. If you stress out a human long enough, you cause first a h…

Having experienced burnout and resulting chronic fatigue syndrome (which is really just an extreme version of burnout that persists long after the stress has ended), I pretty much agree with everything you say. However it's incorrect to say that burnout is physical rather than psychological as psychological factors do play a large part in determining whether or not you experience burnout.

Yes, CFS has a psychological component… In the way that, if X happens the same to you and me, and you don't care, but I do, then my adrenals/thyroid go into overdrive, yours don't; I get sick, you don't. Some people get CFS because of minor stress, some people don't get it until their life is a living hell. That's the psychological aspect of it.

But that doesn't make it a psychological disorder in any way, shape or form. Mind and body are just simply not separate. I have been depressed in my life. I was not depressed before my illness or even during it, except the natural kind of mourning a person goes through when suddenly they can't even stand up.

I'm sure lots of people have concomitant depression, since so many people are depressed, period. But many also do not. (I'm one of them.)

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#89

Post by ahoyhere » Wed, May 01, 2013, 12:42 AM UTC

sageikosa wrote: post #79

ahoyhere wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people in the know now understand that what we call "burnout" is not a psychological disorder at all, but sub-clinical[1] adrenal fatigue caused by stress, period. In other countries with superior medical system integration, like Austria/Germany, this is an accepted medical fact. If you stress out a rat long enough, its adrenal glands will actually bleed. If you stress out a human long enough, you cause first a h…

My main take away from what your are stating is that it doesn't matter whether you succeed or fail at something, it is whether you are running the engine too hot for too long. Stop, breathe, relax, pace yourself. One can burnout after a failure as quickly as after a success. However, one might want to get back on the stress train quicker with a success, since one expects a victory rush at the end of the stress which…

That's a great way to put it.

Yes, positive stress can cause it just as well. I had met the love of my life, traveled to Europe 7 times over a year, gotten married, moved to a foreign country I loved… and founded a new business. Life was pretty good.

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#90

Post by ahoyhere » Wed, May 01, 2013, 1:19 AM UTC

jennita wrote: post #85

outworlder wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being unable to get out of bed. Being unable to make the simplest of decisions without feeling like you're having a panic attack. Being unable to read, because it's too much information at once. Being unable to watch TV shows that have too many "facts" in them. All of the above -- including simple questions of "What do you want for lunch, honey?" -- triggered panic-like attacks in me, who'd never had a panic attack…

I've been through something very similar to this as well and it was a severe depression for me. It was due to pushing myself too much while going through chemo, but it's possible that it can happen with any major life change (like leaving a job). I wrote about my story of depression http://jensablelopez.com/depression-what-summer-made-of/ - not sure if that helps at all. But I agree with others, go see a different do…

jennita, I'm glad you're feeling better now. I don't mean to belittle your experiences whatsoever, because depression is a terrible thing. I just want to explain:

You wrote your husband was able to "force you" to get out of bed (good man) and brush your teeth and do sit-ups etc.

When I say "I can't get out of bed," I mean if I stand, my heart rate doubles, it feels like the "bottom falls out" of my head, the world starts going dark, if I do not sit down I will faint, I can't lift my arm above my head to brush my hair, etc.

No amount of "forcing" could have made me stand up and brush my teeth. When I was over the worst of it, if I would walk two or three blocks to the store, I would feel like I had been hit by a truck for days afterwards. Even years later, I came within a hairs' breadth of passing out doing nothing more strenuous than walking around the ground floor of a museum. Never before in my life had I ever fainted, before I got sick. This is a physical ailment, caused by low blood pressure, disordered autonomic nervous system response, a lack of muscle energy replenishment that is characteristic of CFS/FM, etc.

You also wrote that you couldn't stop thinking. When you have what I have, thinking is almost as difficult as physical activity.

Depression vs CFS is the difference being out of gas, and an engine that is rusted solid.

That doesn't mean your experience wasn't equally terrible in different ways. Your car still wouldn't go. It's an issue of terminology, we only have so many words.