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Path texts my entire phonebook at 6 AM

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Re: Path texts my entire phonebook at 6 AM

#241

Post by microtherion »

bane wrote: post #156
darxius wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote up something quite quickly: http://maxmackie.com/2013/04/30/The-Turing-Oath:-The-Promise... "The Turing Oath" is on Github ( https://github.com/maxmackie/Turing-Oath/blob/master/README.... ) and I recommend people contribute and we grow this to become something people recognize.

While I viscerally agree with this: But I'm not sure if Turing, who is not well known for having had anything to do with privacy is the right person for this oath.

Arguably, the root cause of Turing’s persecution was that his privacy got invaded, and subsequently the government did not think he had a right to his private conduct.

Though admittedly, no technology was involved in the whole matter.

Also, Turing’s wartime exploits involved a breach of privacy in the service of a good cause.

Re: Path texts my entire phonebook at 6 AM

#242

Post by nwh »

micampe wrote: post #225
jacquesm wrote: post #45

Path must really like thos FTC fines. Here's to hoping the next fine will exceed their cash reserves and we can put an end to this madness. The post is proof positive that path still uploads phonebooks from the app to their servers right after installing it.

> The post is proof positive that path still uploads phonebooks from the app to their servers right after installing it. Is it? The texts were coming from his phone number, which suggests they were sent from his phone (not necessarily, I know, but you said "proof positive"). I don't know how Android text message sending works, but there is likely some rate limiting to how many texts you can send so they certainly cou…

The sent address on an SMS is as meaningless as it is on an email. SMS gateways allow the sender to use any number or caller ID. I've used it previously as a party trick, it's completely transparent to the user.

Re: Path texts my entire phonebook at 6 AM

#243

Post by padmanabhan01 »

bitcartel wrote: post #107
crazygringo wrote: post #34

How about another detail -- the fact that the message said the user had photos to share, when he didn't? There's annoying spam, and then there's straight-out-lying spam -- the "x has sent you a message, you need to create an account to view it" type. Just curious, is there a way to sue/fine a company like this for false advertising, essentially?

We need to nip this in the bud. Maybe it's time to create a Hippocratic Oath for developers to publicly commit to? A future Path developer could then refuse to implement an unethical "feature" by pointing out that the company had hired them with the full knowledge that the oath had been undertaken. I don't think the company would pink slip the developer, as they would probably want to avoid any attention being drawn…

if there were such an oath, programmers would write the code and the business will fill it with content..

//It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to which Baghdad could be given as a parameter.

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/05/your-favorite-progr...

Re: Path texts my entire phonebook at 6 AM

#244

Post by darxius »

mjolk wrote: post #230
darxius wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. As a computer engineer in Canada, I must swear by the Code of Ethics because what I do (or potentially don't do) can cause harm. Ethics in computer-science-related fields are important and I think we do need a set of rules we can dogmatically follow like the Hippocratic Oath. Of course, the HO is different in that failing to follow can cause physical harm. However, the world is progressing quickly and mor…

>I think it's our jobs to make sure we don't promote poor practice and un-ethical behaviour. No, it's our responsibility as decent people. I don't need to sign some online pledge to keep myself from pushing people in front of trains. If I was the sort to harm others, why would I care about some meaningless online campaign?

There's nothing to sign and it's not a campaign. You're right, it is our responsibility as decent people to uphold a certain level of moral and ethical behaviour, especially when the software we write is in control of sensitive information.

The Oath is there to remind you to act in the best interest of the user. There are no formalities and although it seems common sense to people like you and me, others might not see it so clearly.

Re: Path texts my entire phonebook at 6 AM

#245

Post by ahknight »

micampe wrote: post #212
creativityland wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that's why we've been seeing Path more in App Store top charts recently? Another app doing similar spamming is Circle: http://discovercircle.com - surprised no one talked about that...

Apps can't send text messages without the user knowing it on iOS, you have to tap Send for each one of them, so this couldn't have affected App Store rankings.

You presume the app sent it and not their servers or a partner service provider. They already grab your address book, including phone numbers. They don't need you after that.

Re: Path texts my entire phonebook at 6 AM

#246

Post by microtherion »

eksith wrote: post #81
Me1000 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is a great example of how people are so quick to rush to judgement with emotional reactions. Let's look at the facts: 1. Path was fined, not for anything involving address books, but for allowing 12 year olds to sign up for the service. 2. Yes... it is proof that Path uploads your phone book. Of course, they ask you. The OS won't even give you access to the phone book without prompting the user. So somew…

>Does Path actually say "We're going to invite all your friends via SMS", even in fine print? Should it? More importantly, will anyone download the app in the first place if it did? No one -- in their right minds -- would suddenly want to share (non-existent) photos with all their contacts. Seems like an odd way to say "We're going to invite all your friends via SMS". Your address book doesn't consist primarily of yo…

"I think it's be more appropriate if the box bore a great red label: 'WARNING: LARK'S VOMIT!!!’" — "Our sales would plummet!” — "Well why don't you move into more conventional areas of confectionary??!!"

Re: Path texts my entire phonebook at 6 AM

#247

Post by __david__ »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #117
Me1000 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is a great example of how people are so quick to rush to judgement with emotional reactions. Let's look at the facts: 1. Path was fined, not for anything involving address books, but for allowing 12 year olds to sign up for the service. 2. Yes... it is proof that Path uploads your phone book. Of course, they ask you. The OS won't even give you access to the phone book without prompting the user. So somew…

You are equating "grant access to the address book" with "spam all 'friends' at 6 o'clock in the morning to tell them lies" By your logic, it would be completely useless to even read the fine print, because giving them access to the addressbook would imply my consent for them to do anything technically possible with it.

> ...because giving them access to the addressbook would imply my consent for them to do anything technically possible with it.

Well, from a technical perspective that is indeed the case. Once they physically have your contact info they may do as they please.

You, as the iOS or Android user, are not giving them permission to use your contacts "properly" or "nicely"--you're giving permission to access them, the raw data of all of them, and once that's done all bets are off. If the app is untrustworthy it is free to go crazy (one of the reasons I always say "no" to that question).

I don't see how Apple or Google can stop this in a technical way without making the permissions more fine grained which in turn makes it more confusing to users (who probably mostly click "OK" anyway).

Apple could, however, make better app policies so that they can pull apps when they attempt this kind of shady crap. I'm not familiar with the Android app store policy, so I won't speculate there.

Re: Path texts my entire phonebook at 6 AM

#248

Post by rhizome »

Avenger42 wrote: post #41
crazygringo wrote: post #34

How about another detail -- the fact that the message said the user had photos to share, when he didn't? There's annoying spam, and then there's straight-out-lying spam -- the "x has sent you a message, you need to create an account to view it" type. Just curious, is there a way to sue/fine a company like this for false advertising, essentially?

There was a court case against a high school alumni site that sent out "a classmate is searching for you" emails to get people to sign up: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/11/how-lawsuit-again... > The case originated with two lawsuits claiming that Classmates.com had sent out millions of deceptive e-mails telling users that an old friend was trying to contact them, and had viewed their profile or signed their…

You don't know how happy it makes me to see former annoyance-kings classmates.com referred to as a "high school alumni site." Ah, the pre-FB days.

Re: Path texts my entire phonebook at 6 AM

#249

Post by ricw »

Me1000 wrote: post #109
silencio wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me1000, I love you, but... > The OS won't even give you access to the phone book without prompting the user. So somewhere along the way, the user knowingly gave Path access to their contacts. The introduction of address book privacy in iOS was in large part prompted by the publication of Path's behavior. Up until the Path and eventually iOS update after the controversy first arose, Path didn't explicitly ask the user…

I'm well aware of what prompted the change to iOS. We talked about that last year. I'm not defending anything, but that's not really at issue today, though.

it certainly is on android. one of the reasons why i only install "social" apps on iOS..

Re: Path texts my entire phonebook at 6 AM

#250

Post by gfodor »

This sounds to me like there was a fuckup in one of the pieces of software that sends these messages causing a lag. The guy probably hit "yes" somewhere without realizing it and then 12 hours later shit hit the fan. Could have been client, could have been Path server, could have been cell provider, whatever.

The thing is it doesn't matter.

When you're dancing on the line of ethical behavior, you are one bug, one mistake, one oversight from crossing it. When you cross it, it might not be "your fault", but generally it never is: your fault was to be so close that such a thing could happen in the first place.

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