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Light Table 0.4 released

chris-granger.com

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Re: Light Table 0.4 released

#71

Post by pnathan »

ibdknox wrote: post #42
dman wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped serious use of common lisp about 5 years ago - but jokes about lisp not seeing serious use still hurt. :)

I was actually suggesting that I can't believe people still use CL when Clojure exists... I await my lynching. :D

Well, since you threw that out there...

...I can't believe that people use Clojure-the-language over CL-the-language. It seems to have no reason to exist except as a "I hate parens" Lisp-1. The interesting parts of Clojure (i.e., the sequence abstraction design) are replicatable in CL as a library. Extant issues (e.g., cl's map not mapping over vectors)* can be abstracted over with other tools.

While the JVM interop is compelling, I don't understand why the libraries and macros to create similarly compelling interop over ABCL weren't developed instead.

Bluntly, I don't know why Clojure was created as a new language instead of an advanced library over Common Lisp. I appreciate the interest it's been able to drum up in the Lisp family, and I deeply appreciate the libraries people have written for it.

*: I was wrong: map goes over a variety of types: mapcar, mapcan, etc, are common and only operate on lists. Ignorance uncovered and filled in by knowledge.

Re: Light Table 0.4 released

#72

Post by i-blis »

jspiral wrote: post #69

I'm interested in writing a simple rest API using compojure as a learning exercise. Can anyone experienced give an outline of what a reasonable workflow would be to do this using light table? I see that light table can "connect" to my project.clj...

1. make a new lein project

2. fill in the dependencies in project.clj

3. open your src/core.clj (or whatever) in LT

4. start coding

LT will automatically launch a client and connect to it. In between lein will have seamlessly fetched the dependencies for you (this happens automatically each time you launch or relaunch a client).

You can do manual (C-Enter) or live (Instarepl) inline evaluation in any of your project file or even connect a new fresh repl to the client to experiment from scratch.

Re: Light Table 0.4 released

#73

Post by daemon »

Absolutely fantastic. I spend about 30% of my time in Python and 30% in Node.js, using WingIDE and Aptana, respectively. I'm not going to abandon my current IDEs, but this has the potential to change my workflow significantly.

Re: Light Table 0.4 released

#74

Post by gajomi »

pnathan wrote: post #71
ibdknox wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was actually suggesting that I can't believe people still use CL when Clojure exists... I await my lynching. :D

Well, since you threw that out there... ...I can't believe that people use Clojure-the-language over CL-the-language. It seems to have no reason to exist except as a "I hate parens" Lisp-1. The interesting parts of Clojure (i.e., the sequence abstraction design) are replicatable in CL as a library. Extant issues (e.g., cl's map not mapping over vectors)* can be abstracted over with other tools. While the JVM interop…

>Bluntly, I don't know why Clojure was created as a new language instead of an advanced library over Common Lisp

I think you basically answered your own question :)

>JVM interop is compelling

Re: Light Table 0.4 released

#75

Post by enduser »

pnathan wrote: post #71
ibdknox wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was actually suggesting that I can't believe people still use CL when Clojure exists... I await my lynching. :D

Well, since you threw that out there... ...I can't believe that people use Clojure-the-language over CL-the-language. It seems to have no reason to exist except as a "I hate parens" Lisp-1. The interesting parts of Clojure (i.e., the sequence abstraction design) are replicatable in CL as a library. Extant issues (e.g., cl's map not mapping over vectors)* can be abstracted over with other tools. While the JVM interop…

The only reason I can understand for the existence and use of Clojure is interoperation with Java and because Clojure is more actively developed than ABCL.

The big question to me is why people who do not need Java interop are using Clojure. Here are some reasons I can think of:

- The tooling around Clojure feels more familiar to Ruby/Python/Node programmers.

- Ruby/Python programmers need their programs to run slowly so that they can be certain something is happening.

- Cult of personality. Rich Hickey has a lot of great videos and conference presentations. Lisp has no apparent technical or thought leader. Followers need leaders.

- Hubris. The same stupidity that causes organizations to throw out Robert's Rules of Order and then subsequently reinvent non-standard solutions to the problems RR was created to solve in the first place.

P.S. CL's map works with all sequences, including vectors.

Re: Light Table 0.4 released

#76

Post by smosher »

I wish there was some way to set it up for use with other languages (ones that have Read-Eval-Print facilities.) I can't get very interested until I see that.

The UI font appears to be unchangeable. I can understand the motivation for that, but it renders pretty badly on my system.

Re: Light Table 0.4 released

#77

Post by pnathan »

gajomi wrote: post #74
pnathan wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, since you threw that out there... ...I can't believe that people use Clojure-the-language over CL-the-language. It seems to have no reason to exist except as a "I hate parens" Lisp-1. The interesting parts of Clojure (i.e., the sequence abstraction design) are replicatable in CL as a library. Extant issues (e.g., cl's map not mapping over vectors)* can be abstracted over with other tools. While the JVM interop…

>Bluntly, I don't know why Clojure was created as a new language instead of an advanced library over Common Lisp I think you basically answered your own question :) >JVM interop is compelling

But the thing is, Armed Bear Common Lisp (ABCL) already offers JVM interop.

If someone sat down and really massaged it, the currently clunky interop there could be just as shiny as Clojure.

Re: Light Table 0.4 released

#78

Post by radicalcut »

ibdknox wrote: post #42
dman wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped serious use of common lisp about 5 years ago - but jokes about lisp not seeing serious use still hurt. :)

I was actually suggesting that I can't believe people still use CL when Clojure exists... I await my lynching. :D

Yeah, they do. And there's quite many of them actually. :-) Clojure might be big in the startup bubble, but that's about it I'm afraid.

Re: Light Table 0.4 released

#79

Post by Meai »

ibdknox wrote: post #13
jiaaro wrote: post #5

I look forward to writing (essentially vim-) plugins for light table in javascript. Some day soon? Extensions were mentioned on the blog about a year ago ( http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/04/15/light-tables-numbers... ), but as far as I can tell, they're still not here yet :(

The plugin architecture is something we have to be deliberate about given that it allows you to do literally anything we can do. I talk a little bit about the plan moving forward at the bottom of the post, but gist is that there's going to be one more public release, and then the private beta (for KS folks) is going to focus on really hammering out how we expose LT to plugins.

Is there a way to preorder in order to get into the private beta as well? I wasn't with the Kickstarter crowd. If plugins are as powerful as you say they are, I'm very interested.

Re: Light Table 0.4 released

#80

Post by pnathan »

enduser wrote: post #75
pnathan wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, since you threw that out there... ...I can't believe that people use Clojure-the-language over CL-the-language. It seems to have no reason to exist except as a "I hate parens" Lisp-1. The interesting parts of Clojure (i.e., the sequence abstraction design) are replicatable in CL as a library. Extant issues (e.g., cl's map not mapping over vectors)* can be abstracted over with other tools. While the JVM interop…

The only reason I can understand for the existence and use of Clojure is interoperation with Java and because Clojure is more actively developed than ABCL. The big question to me is why people who do not need Java interop are using Clojure. Here are some reasons I can think of: - The tooling around Clojure feels more familiar to Ruby/Python/Node programmers. - Ruby/Python programmers need their programs to run slowly…

Apologies to CL. I usually use MAP(CAR|CAN). I hadn't investigated MAP itself due to the extra parameter.
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