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Why SICP Matters

cs.berkeley.edu

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Re: Why SICP Matters

#21

Post by brudgers »

taeric wrote: post #12

I have to confess I just discovered you can order a relatively cheap copy (well, compared to Amazon) of SICP direct from MIT. I have only skimmed so far, but combined with the lectures I have to say that I really wish that had been my introduction to programming. Maybe it is just because of where I'm at, but it really feels like in the first 3 lectures some of the more elusive topics of programming are at least touch…

Link to the book at MIT Press [ Paperback | $49.00 | £33.95 ]

http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/structure-and-interpretation-c...

Re: Why SICP Matters

#22

Post by calinet6 »

sepeth wrote: post #4

SICP videos are also great. The first part of the Lecture 1A, talks about "computer science". From the first moment, we learn that computer science is also not really much about computers. "...when some field is just getting started and you don't really understand it very well, it's very easy to confuse the essence of what you're doing with the tools that you use..." "...Well, similarly, I think in the future people…

"...when some field is just getting started and you don't really understand it very well, it's very easy to confuse the essence of what you're doing with the tools that you use..."

So true of so many fields, namely photography. Can't tell you how much camera gear I bought before I finally sold it all and started taking photographs.

As it is with computers. Languages mean nothing, it's the concepts that matter.

Re: Why SICP Matters

#23

Post by tobinfricke »

taeric wrote: post #12

I have to confess I just discovered you can order a relatively cheap copy (well, compared to Amazon) of SICP direct from MIT. I have only skimmed so far, but combined with the lectures I have to say that I really wish that had been my introduction to programming. Maybe it is just because of where I'm at, but it really feels like in the first 3 lectures some of the more elusive topics of programming are at least touch…

> I have only skimmed so far

For the mind-blowing effect to occur, you must actually do the exercises. (-:

Re: Why SICP Matters

#24

Post by calinet6 »

webreac wrote: post #2

When I was student, my school has decided to stop using Ada as teaching language. They were hesitating between CAML Light and Scheme. They asked me my feeling because I was one of the rare student to know well both of them. I like both of them, but I choose CAML Light. Scheme has a lot of parenthesis that makes it look very old fashion. Scheme type system was also outdated. Programming in CAML Light was more fun for…

"Scheme has a lot of parenthesis that makes it look very old fashion."

Might I argue that this is a huge advantage? No one knows scheme, and it's very obscure, and looks nothing like other programming languages. This means that you can teach concepts using it and pre-judgements about the language don't get in the way.

Then, I suppose the same could be said of CAML and its obscurity.

Re: Why SICP Matters

#25

Post by calinet6 »

mrspeaker wrote: post #19
yanatan16 wrote: post #3

I didn't discover SICP until after I had graduated from a good CS school. Its clear and away the best programming book I've ever read, even for an experienced developer.

Yep... I was coder for many years before I discovered it. I'm mad at my university for not forcing it on me!

Ha, this is exactly it! As an 18-year-old interested in computers, you just want to start writing iPhone apps and making the next big web service, but quite often those old geezers know better than you.

Catering to the things that 18-year-olds want has never really gotten us far in society.

Re: Why SICP Matters

#26

Post by SeanDav »

calinet6 wrote: post #20

Excellent article. I'm immensely glad and lucky to have had Brian Harvey as a professor, and this echoes exactly what he taught us and the general teaching at Berkeley: that the concepts of programming and computer science were of paramount importance, and that you should understand them in the abstract. To this day, this is why I value a good theoretical CS education, why I value university education, and why I cont…

Sounds like Berkeley are making a huge mistake and losing sight of what a University is there for. They seem to have moved to a more practical approach than theoretical approach.

This is the type of approach that is more appropriate to a Technical College than a major University. This new approach almost seems like teaching civil engineers how to weld and rivet in order to build bridges, rather than deeply understanding the mathematical theory behind stress and vectors.

Re: Why SICP Matters

#28

Post by gcv »

webreac wrote: post #2

When I was student, my school has decided to stop using Ada as teaching language. They were hesitating between CAML Light and Scheme. They asked me my feeling because I was one of the rare student to know well both of them. I like both of them, but I choose CAML Light. Scheme has a lot of parenthesis that makes it look very old fashion. Scheme type system was also outdated. Programming in CAML Light was more fun for…

Dynamic typing is outdated?!

Re: Why SICP Matters

#29

Post by calinet6 »

SeanDav wrote: post #26
calinet6 wrote: post #20

Excellent article. I'm immensely glad and lucky to have had Brian Harvey as a professor, and this echoes exactly what he taught us and the general teaching at Berkeley: that the concepts of programming and computer science were of paramount importance, and that you should understand them in the abstract. To this day, this is why I value a good theoretical CS education, why I value university education, and why I cont…

Sounds like Berkeley are making a huge mistake and losing sight of what a University is there for. They seem to have moved to a more practical approach than theoretical approach. This is the type of approach that is more appropriate to a Technical College than a major University. This new approach almost seems like teaching civil engineers how to weld and rivet in order to build bridges, rather than deeply understand…

Yes, I think they're moving in that direction.

The intro courses, while in Python, still use many of the concepts and text of SICP, so it's not all gone. Many of the concepts translate well, and it's not the end of the world or even a slippery slope—I think that would be overreacting.

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with using a newer and more useful language to teach these concepts—after all, as Harvey always said, the language doesn't really matter. However, it's conceding to rationality just slightly, and you're right, a University, especially Berkeley in my mind, is a place where you're free to learn concepts and think theoretically without needing to find a real-world application for at least a couple years. They should keep that as a core value, and I certainly hope they do even as they use more modern languages.

Re: Why SICP Matters

#30

Post by zoz »

I took Brian Harvey's SICP course, what I didn't realize until I read this article is that I was in the first class he taught in 1987. I remember helping a friend in the course. We stared at five lines of code while I tried to explain it, he had a really hard time with it (some type of recursion I assume). I still hold the lesson from that tutor session. Write code to be easily read by the average joe. Python, Ruby, etc are great because they are easier to read by more people. Languages are about people not machines. p.s. I am still writing code today, and loving it.
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