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French President announces pro-business measures

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Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#101

Post by vacri »

qwerta wrote: post #49
LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #10

75% tax rate. He is a sociallist big time. He hates free market economy. Now confronting public outrage he puts some lipstick on a pig and it still doesn't look good as he doesn't get the markets. 75% tax rate, who is he kidding? Who wants to work for free for years on their startup and sacrifice their savings, their social life, sometimes their family, just to be hit by 75% tax at the end of the journey? No thank yo…

75% tax rate is very common in Europe even for workers with average salary. There are many hidden taxes such as 'social security insurance payed by employer'.

A load of tosh. "Income tax rates in France" in google gives you them with ease.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_France#Taxes_on_inc...

In order to hit 40% income tax, you have to be a single on 70k or a nuclear family on 210k. Even if they have 20% VAT equivalent, that only works out to another 10% of what's left, leaving 50% as disposable income. And that's the highest tax bracket, and given that the average wage in France is supposedly ~30k euro, that's less than half the highest bracket cutoff.

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#102

Post by nire »

philjeudy wrote: post #51
xsace wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sum up everything. If you fear the failure, you can't be successful. That's a french mentality issue (I'm french) French people need to understand the learn from your failures concept

I'm French too and I totally disagree with this comment. We should stop old style cliché and be fair a bit. Things are changing there obviously.

Absolutely, things are changing.

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#103

Post by vacri »

speeq wrote: post #61
claudius wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are several places more business-friendly around the world. Sure. There are also several places with much worse infrastructure around the world. If you don’t want to pay taxes, go to Somalia.

What about places like UAE? The Dubai "Internet City"- Free Trade Zone offers absence of corporate and personal income taxes or customs duties, as well as free repatriation of capital and profit in any currency. I'd say, if you don't want to pay taxes, go to Dubai.

Vanuatu is another good place. No income tax unless you're a landlord. They won a survey for happiest people in the world. The weather is great. Of course, they're a long way from anywhere, 80% are subsistence farmers, and some islands even still have actual cargo cults, but still, no tax, happy environment. Not much infrastructure, but hey, no taxes.

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#104

Post by lke »

LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #67
lke wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What don't you understand in "over one million" ? If you sell it for 1,000,001 the 75% rate only applies to the extra 1. Not the whole 1,000,001 just the 1 that is over the million. That's what is called a marginal taxe rate. Each tax braket only applies to the money within the backet range. If you make 1,000,001 the first 6,000 are not taxed and the last one is taxed at 75%. (Or will be if we ever get that). -- Edit…

True. But the first million is not tax free neither. If over 1,000,000 is 75% then I'd assume that below 1,000,000 isn't much better. I'd assume if I sell for 2,000,000 the total tax will be at least 50%. How is this fair?

See for yourself : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baremes_de_l_impot_sur_le_reven...

Now you may not understand french but the table is quite understandable. Fist column the brackets, last column the marginal taxe rate.

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#105

Post by return0 »

claudius wrote: post #92
return0 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI, after what happened in Cyprus (and may be repeated in malta), dozens of online businesses which were based there are moving to Dubai. Not sure how the schizoid behavior of Europeans authorities with regards to business is helping at all.

Because, err, Dubai is such an extremely democratic country where it is absolutely guaranteed that the government will jump in if you fail and where there is a large social security net in case your company goes bankrupt? Really, Cyprus and Malta are not that different from Dubai, and neither is their business model. The difference is that Cyprus and Malta are part of a larger entity that guarantees certain things, s…

Hey i'm not claiming it's a better place to live in. The point is, businesses are mobile nowadays and europe is doing everything it can to scare them away.

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#106

Post by kybernetyk »

jacquesm wrote: post #64

When French entrepreneurs move to Berlin and London to work on their companies you know you have a problem. France's capital gain taxes are a real issue, and even the new, changed and improved rates will not do much to counteract this. And that's just one of the things working against French entrepreneurs, the various employment laws don't help a whole lot either. It would be fair to class France as start-up hostile…

> When entrepreneurs move to Berlin to work on their companies

I'd say you have a real problem if that happens. Germany is pretty entrepreneur unfriendly (source: I'm an entrepreneur in Germany) and if your country is even worse ... well.

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#107

Post by ovi256 »

vacri wrote: post #101
qwerta wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

75% tax rate is very common in Europe even for workers with average salary. There are many hidden taxes such as 'social security insurance payed by employer'.

A load of tosh. "Income tax rates in France" in google gives you them with ease. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_France#Taxes_on_inc... In order to hit 40% income tax, you have to be a single on 70k or a nuclear family on 210k. Even if they have 20% VAT equivalent, that only works out to another 10% of what's left, leaving 50% as disposable income. And that's the highest tax bracket, and given that the avera…

>There are many hidden taxes such as 'social security insurance payed by employer'.

He's taking about hidden taxes such as this one, which is paid by the employer, so many French people I've talked to about it seem to think it's somehow magically not money out of their pocket.

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#108

Post by jgrahamc »

LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #84

There is a reason for which there have been no big French or European company founded after WW2 (1945). The reason is called socialism. Think about it. BMW, Mercedes, Siemens, Loreal, Peugot, you name it! No Google from Europe, no Microsoft, no Oracle, or Tesla, or whatever. Not a single big company from the EU after 1945. Especially overregulated places like France. I met a French clothes designer in New York recent…

There is a reason for which there have been no big French or European company founded after WW2 (1945).

So, the following don't count?

Bouygues (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouygues) founded in 1952. Large conglomerate with 130,000 employees world wide.

Capgemini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capgemini) founded in 1967. One of the largest IT consulting firms in the world.

Carrefour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrefour) founded in 1958. It is the second largest retail group in the world.

JCDecaux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JCDecaux) founded in 1964. The largest outdoor advertising firm in the world.

Sodexo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodexo) founded in 1966. One of the largest food service companies in the world.

etc.

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#109

Post by yardie »

smoyer wrote: post #93

I remember hearing about France's 35-hour work-week (in the mid to late '90s I believe) and I'm curious if some of the Frenchmen here can tell us how eliminating that cap has affected the economy. Are people simply working more hours? Has unemployment gone up since a business needing X number of hours a week needs less workers? And most importantly, was that limiting the ability to create start-ups?

I work in France and I'm still trying to wrap my head around the 35-hour rule. I've only worked PMEs (* General salaries are sort of trapped outside the big cities. You can work 35-hours but don't expect any pay raises. I think the avg salary is around 1500€/mo. I would say most people have built there lives around the 35-hour week and even though it's not an upper limit anymore I haven't noticed an uptick in working hours.

* There are so many things wrong in the French economy you can't really site a single source. Sluggish economy, automation, globalisation, all play a part. Do remember that after 35 hours that extra time is voluntary, as Apple is finding out. A smart manager wouldn't build a work schedule around 40 hours knowing the workers can legally walk off at 35.

* Startup culture was much harder in the past. Where would you live? No property owner would rent you a flat because you don't have a "real" job. Bankruptcy was devastating, that 040 code. And then you have the social charges. The government wanted you to pay your pension, insurance, and the other social charges, in advance. Imagine what it costs to create a startup? Now imagine having to pay an entire year of taxes before you can sign your first customer. And the other thing was bureaucracy, lots of it.

The government tried to make inroads on the tax charges by allowing them to be delayed for 2 years. And a lot of companies failed at 2 years for this reason.[1]

[1] this was told to me by a political activist friend.

Re: French President announces pro-business measures

#110

Post by archivator »

kybernetyk wrote: post #106
jacquesm wrote: post #64

When French entrepreneurs move to Berlin and London to work on their companies you know you have a problem. France's capital gain taxes are a real issue, and even the new, changed and improved rates will not do much to counteract this. And that's just one of the things working against French entrepreneurs, the various employment laws don't help a whole lot either. It would be fair to class France as start-up hostile…

> When entrepreneurs move to Berlin to work on their companies I'd say you have a real problem if that happens. Germany is pretty entrepreneur unfriendly (source: I'm an entrepreneur in Germany) and if your country is even worse ... well.

Huh, I've heard only good things about the startup scene in Berlin. What are some of the main issues from your perspective, if you don't mind elaborating?
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