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Avoiding Burnout

andrewdumont.me

41–50 of 107 posts

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#41
post #33

I remember reading this published insight[1] from Marissa Mayer a few months ago: Burnout is caused by resentment Which sounded amazing, until this guy who dated a neuroscientist commented[2]: No. Burnout is caused when you repeatedly make large amounts of sacrifice and or effort into high-risk problems that fail. It's the result of a negative prediction error in the nucleus accumbens. You effectively condition your…

>>The best way to prevent burnout is to follow up a serious failure with doing small things that you know are going to work. If you are making large amounts of sacrifice towards high risk problems and failing. You are likely doing something wrong and merely backing them up with 'small wins' is not going to help and shouldn't help. The best thing in that case is to really burnout and quit, to do things that are better…

If you AREN'T making large amounts of sacrifice toward high risk problems, I'd say you're doing something wrong.

Startups are a perfect example of this. We see serial entrepreneurs fail spectacularly (see Color), we read about entrepreneurs who kill themselves after a string of failures, and we read all of the time about the new guys and girls who tried their hardest yet never managed to take off. People like to write about "why my startup failed", but they are hurting a lot more than they let on.

Entrepreneurs shouldn't be risk adverse. If you want risk adverse, go work at Google. At the same time, we should understand what it means to live in high risk mode, and learn to recognize warning signs (depression, burn out, loneliness, etc.) in ourselves and others so that a high risk lifestyle can be manageable and even healthy.

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#42

I remember reading this published insight[1] from Marissa Mayer a few months ago: Burnout is caused by resentment Which sounded amazing, until this guy who dated a neuroscientist commented[2]: No. Burnout is caused when you repeatedly make large amounts of sacrifice and or effort into high-risk problems that fail. It's the result of a negative prediction error in the nucleus accumbens. You effectively condition your…

Thank you for this! It totally reminds me of Feynman's spinning plates story:

http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~kilcup/262/feynman.html

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#43
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice read! It makes a lot of sense too. We developers could probably do something as small as working on a projecteuler.net problem for 30 minutes at the end of a rough day.

Unlikely to work as you probably don't see that as work therefore you're not fighting the link between work and failure.

Not true. If you code and solve problems at work, and fail spectacularly, you don't want to try and solve more problems. The brain is very good at generalizing stimuli: having your code compile is like a programmer's own little Skinner box. So if you can find problems in other domains and solve them, you'll still enjoy programming and solving problems.

I do agree that you need some successes at work, though. If you were doing really well in private, but everything at work was going wrong that would cause problems.

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#44

I remember reading this published insight[1] from Marissa Mayer a few months ago: Burnout is caused by resentment Which sounded amazing, until this guy who dated a neuroscientist commented[2]: No. Burnout is caused when you repeatedly make large amounts of sacrifice and or effort into high-risk problems that fail. It's the result of a negative prediction error in the nucleus accumbens. You effectively condition your…

Here's the old discussion thread on the "Burnout is caused by resentment" article:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3767931

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#45
post #42

I remember reading this published insight[1] from Marissa Mayer a few months ago: Burnout is caused by resentment Which sounded amazing, until this guy who dated a neuroscientist commented[2]: No. Burnout is caused when you repeatedly make large amounts of sacrifice and or effort into high-risk problems that fail. It's the result of a negative prediction error in the nucleus accumbens. You effectively condition your…

Thank you for this! It totally reminds me of Feynman's spinning plates story: http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~kilcup/262/feynman.html

I came here to say the same thing.

And, Feynman had a gift at making these ideas accessible to the layperson. He is very missed.

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#46
post #21

I remember reading this published insight[1] from Marissa Mayer a few months ago: Burnout is caused by resentment Which sounded amazing, until this guy who dated a neuroscientist commented[2]: No. Burnout is caused when you repeatedly make large amounts of sacrifice and or effort into high-risk problems that fail. It's the result of a negative prediction error in the nucleus accumbens. You effectively condition your…

" Burnout is caused when you repeatedly make large amounts of sacrifice and or effort into high-risk problems that fail. It's the result of a negative prediction error in the nucleus accumbens. You effectively condition your brain to associate work with failure." A real definition of burnout! Everything else makes it sound so nebulous.

Yep, I absolutely agree. I always thought Marissa's comment on burnout seem a bit off, and inaccurate.

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#47

I remember reading this published insight[1] from Marissa Mayer a few months ago: Burnout is caused by resentment Which sounded amazing, until this guy who dated a neuroscientist commented[2]: No. Burnout is caused when you repeatedly make large amounts of sacrifice and or effort into high-risk problems that fail. It's the result of a negative prediction error in the nucleus accumbens. You effectively condition your…

No. Burnout is caused when you repeatedly make large amounts of sacrifice and or effort into high-risk problems that fail. It's the result of a negative prediction error in the nucleus accumbens. You effectively condition your brain to associate work with failure.

Wow. Fuck. That is spot-on. Just... fuck! You nailed it.

I feel like I've been badly conditioned over the past few years. I've worked on failed software projects (only one my fault, years ago and I didn't know what I was doing) and in bad managerial environments, and I've never experienced team synergy or symbiotic management-- I know it exists, but it hasn't been my experience. Yet as an almost-succeeded creative writer, I'm really good at kvetching because I can capture peoples' complaints in a way that almost no one else can. I'm terrified of conditioning myself out of tech just by being so much better at kvetching (I can write a top comment on almost any forum).

I don't failure is that bad. I'm old enough to realize that good ideas fail for all kinds of reasons, and that it's pointless to get married to an idea, a project, or even a job. I can hack failure. It comes with the territory. Scrap the old project, start a new one. Most people who achieve great things were much bigger failures than I am, up until a couple years before the "overnight success".

What really drives the nail in is the low social status that comes with failure. Project cancelled? Ok, fine. Is it a transfer or a layoff? Just let me know and be fair about it, and we're cool. Lose a job? That happens. Dealing with humiliation afterward-- applying for subordinate roles for which I'm way overqualified, having to go through 47 goddamn phone screens for each company just to prove I'm not an idiot-- is harder. It doesn't help that we're a tribe (technologists, software engineers) with extremely low social status (especially per IQ point) in comparison to project managers and bike-shedding executives.

I don't know that it's the association of hard work with failure itself that's so devastating, but the association of it with low social status is, I think, what drives so many people out of our industry before age 35. Project failure would be okay if it wasn't so devastating to our social status, especially in an industry where ageism begins at 27. Then, we see people of mediocre talent and work ethic getting ahead (including $200M+ acq-hires) on social polish and it's just more demoralizing.

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#48

I remember reading this published insight[1] from Marissa Mayer a few months ago: Burnout is caused by resentment Which sounded amazing, until this guy who dated a neuroscientist commented[2]: No. Burnout is caused when you repeatedly make large amounts of sacrifice and or effort into high-risk problems that fail. It's the result of a negative prediction error in the nucleus accumbens. You effectively condition your…

"On the heels of the failure of a project where I have spent weeks building up for, I will quickly force myself to do routine molecular biology, or general lab tasks, or a repeat of an experiment that I have gotten to work in the past."

I wonder what the equivalent would be for a programmer/software engineer? Prototyping? Proof of concepts?

I often find myself spending a lot of time on a new framework/architecture only to realize it didn't really accomplish the task at hand.

Re: Avoiding Burnout

#49
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice read! It makes a lot of sense too. We developers could probably do something as small as working on a projecteuler.net problem for 30 minutes at the end of a rough day.

Unlikely to work as you probably don't see that as work therefore you're not fighting the link between work and failure.

Your nucleus accumbens isn't necessarily very smart, and isn't necessarily segmenting its world into "work" and "not work". "Work" here is a poor term in this context, it's an English word and subject to a lot of ambiguity. It might be somewhat more accurate to rephrase that as "You are training yourself to believe that all effort is futile", effort towards anything, which is why you end up just staring into space. Or perhaps not, who knows what the truest truth is, I'm really more saying that I doubt that part of your brain sees "work" as you were using the term.
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