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A Local Revolution?

paulgraham.com

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Re: A Local Revolution?

#71

Post by davidw »

pg wrote: post #66
ojbyrne wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flip side of that is there's a complete lack of any criticism, and to me it feels like that will be its downfall (Detroit met its downfall, and so will Silicon Valley). A recent case in point is the whole DiggBar controversy. I'd suggest that the criticism has come entirely from outsiders or people "not of the valley," Meanwhile there's been a whole tide of "digg is taking over the world," "digg is growing up" fr…

You must have seen a strange slice of the Valley. People here think much more critically about startups than in the rest of the US. People in Nebraska aren't worrying about Twitter's business model.

You must have spent some time 'out west' during the Viaweb acquisition. How much did you see of the valley in those years? I lived in San Francisco in 1999 and early 2000, and thought things were actually pretty crazy. I don't think I knew anyone who wasn't doing something related to computers, and there was a very unhealthy "free money! wheeee!" attitude amongst a lot of people, so much of it was being sloshed around in a way that obviously wasn't sustainable.

Also, there were virtually no children, no old people, not many "middle class" people... it all just struck me as very out of kilter.

That's not to say that there aren't lots of good things, or that the area is a bad place or somewhere people shouldn't go, just that it has its downsides too. I got the feeling that it has never really cast off the 'gold rush' mentality: get in, get rich, get out. Sure, some do stay and make it their home (you, for instance), but so many move on that I never felt much sense of community, something that I do enjoy over here in Italy, and have found more of in other towns in the US.

> People in Nebraska aren't worrying about Twitter's business model.

They're busy getting rich with more traditional stuff that they understand:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Buffett

Re: A Local Revolution?

#72

Post by mscarborough »

pg wrote: post #66
ojbyrne wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flip side of that is there's a complete lack of any criticism, and to me it feels like that will be its downfall (Detroit met its downfall, and so will Silicon Valley). A recent case in point is the whole DiggBar controversy. I'd suggest that the criticism has come entirely from outsiders or people "not of the valley," Meanwhile there's been a whole tide of "digg is taking over the world," "digg is growing up" fr…

You must have seen a strange slice of the Valley. People here think much more critically about startups than in the rest of the US. People in Nebraska aren't worrying about Twitter's business model.

> People in Nebraska aren't worrying about Twitter's business model.

Very true, but we should not be so dismissive of non-startup small businesses. I'm new here, and have worked at tech startups since I got my CS degrees and started my career a few years ago.

Starting a new business on the basis of a great idea and hard work is nothing new. All around me, I see examples of small businesses being creative within their domain, and they are growing profitable businesses using the same tools we use (in theory: great graphic design, viral/word-of-mouth marketing, accessible customer service, and hard work) without any promise of making it big. These businesses see a niche and try to serve it uniquely.

I appreciate SV and the hungry tech culture as much as anyone, but we're not operating on fundamentally different principles.

Re: A Local Revolution?

#73

Post by mscarborough »

raintrees wrote: post #28

I am keeping my eyes on Boulder, CO. From what I hear, good university, good business climate, willing to take initiatives (Smart Grid being rolled out as we type). Now if they only had ocean access... :)

Boulder _is_ a good example of how to foster a tech hub. Wired had a print story about this a few months back, but I couldn't find it on their site. Though they did claim that Colorado's Front Range is an optimal site for a new SV. Given time, I agree.

I can say that there is a very open and supportive start-up culture here (Boulder & Denver metro). Tech Meetups and LUG groups are pretty active; the new-tech group based in Boulder routinely overfills 300-seat auditoriums and is expanding to handle the traffic. Most tech folks here have the mentality of wanting others to succeed, no matter if it is with our own companies or with a different one. We are happy to share knowledge.

Sorry no beachfront though, you'd have to settle for the best mountain sports anywhere.

Re: A Local Revolution?

#74

Post by warfangle »

aditya wrote: post #63
warfangle wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny story: I was sitting at a bar out here in Bushwick, Brooklyn, just finishing up my dinner and sipping on a nice stout. Woman next to me glances up from her book and says, "You aren't a programmer, are you?" "Um.. yes, actually. I do user interface development. How'd you know" "Oh, I just moved here from the Valley... I guess I just know the type when I see it." Weird, but eye opening!

What bar was it? I just moved to Bushwick and all I see is Popeye's and Dunkin Donuts. Maybe I'm just further out...

Northeast Kingdom - Troutman and Wyckoff, right between the two entrances to the Jefferson stop on the L. We've got a Dunkin over by the Dekalb stop, but Wyckoff Starr is better (starr & wyckoff) ;)

Re: A Local Revolution?

#75

Post by Ardit20 »

If so, this revolution is going to be particularly revolutionary lol every revolution is revolutionary that is why it is called a revolution and I doubt you may have a particular revolutionary revolution lol

Anyway, you may say that the intellectual revolution of the enlightenment was local, it started in Italy and remained there for a while, some century I think. But this is not a start up revolution, it is a technological revolution, the revolution is not the start up culture but the advances made in communication technology. As such it is not any different than the industrial revolution as far as the importing of technological aspects is concerned. Nor is it any different from a power plant, every nation must have internet and with Italian internet comes Italian Google, which as it happens I think it is libero.it although that might be more like yahoo than google. So perhaps now the start up culture is localised to silicon valley, but I doubt it will be long until a silicon valley appears in London or Rome or Berlin.

Re: A Local Revolution?

#76

Post by david927 »

pg wrote: post #67
rgoddard wrote: post #6

The other question to consider is if the revolution is local, does that really matter for the society at large? The startups are creating value for the rest of society, regardless of where the startups are located. Using the internet as the means of distribution, decouples the location of the business from the consumers of the product, thus allowing the startups to have a central location. The business revolution wil…

The fact that the Industrial Revolution was localized mattered a lot to the regions that were left behind. It made them the victims in the ensuing era of colonialism.

That's true, but meaningless. History is only our friend when it applies. A lot of technology is now software based and thanks to the web, it is immediately distributed evenly to all those who have computers with internet access. While that still leaves out a large chunk of the world, it gives no substantial benefit to the place where the technology was born.

Re: A Local Revolution?

#77

Post by david927 »

rgr23 wrote: post #39

"People are dramatically more productive as founders or early employees of startups—imagine how much less Larry and Sergey would have achieved if they'd gone to work for a big company—and that scale of improvement can change social customs." I question this assertion. I'd bet a single Google engineer who makes a 1% improvement in adsense targeting can create more economic value than most startup founders.

Exactly. Productivity only matters when it's directed properly. A brilliant MIT student working 20 hour days on some silly mash-up is not nearly as productive as a slow and obtuse engineer in some large corporation working 6 hours days. It's the results that count.

I would argue the contrary case to Paul's; I think that Silicon Valley has slowed down growth. They make it a lottery that you can win with having a cool, quick hit. The money in the valley has little love for hard problems and a lot of love for fads, much like record producers.

Re: A Local Revolution?

#78

Post by kaens »

Regarding spreading, it seems to me that location doesn't matter as much as it could. I've never lived in the Valley, or in any other stereotypical "tech hub" though, so I could be wrong there.

I'm currently working for what I consider to be a startup in a small town in the UK. We're making software that is applicable to a specific industry, and the industry is very hungry for it. I'm currently the only programmer.

What looks like the probable course for us (and probably for other people like us - people starting up software dev stuff in smaller areas), is that once we've sold what we're working on right now, we'll probably move on to doing more interesting things, and form a small software development house of sorts.

What we're doing right now would be utterly impossible without the internet, if only due to communication-over-distance issues.

I think that the stereotypical "startup" is just the start of what we'll continue to see as more and more people realize that they can make their livelihood online. What I'm doing doesn't fit the stereotypical startup mold, but is the type of thing that I think we'll see more and more of, assuming nothing majorly bad happens to the internet or society in general.

Re: A Local Revolution?

#79

Post by dbul »

david927 wrote: post #77
rgr23 wrote: post #39

"People are dramatically more productive as founders or early employees of startups—imagine how much less Larry and Sergey would have achieved if they'd gone to work for a big company—and that scale of improvement can change social customs." I question this assertion. I'd bet a single Google engineer who makes a 1% improvement in adsense targeting can create more economic value than most startup founders.

Exactly. Productivity only matters when it's directed properly. A brilliant MIT student working 20 hour days on some silly mash-up is not nearly as productive as a slow and obtuse engineer in some large corporation working 6 hours days. It's the results that count. I would argue the contrary case to Paul's; I think that Silicon Valley has slowed down growth. They make it a lottery that you can win with having a cool,…

This sounds nice in theory, but I don't think it is always true. There are techies who have a career and those who have a job. It is better to get as many who have a job doing what they are passionate about, because they are probably wasting their time at their job.

And I wish that at least one of the 100+ companies that have come out of YC were IPO bound. I tried to hint that we were of that mindset when we had applied, no cigar. I'm not really sure why YC continues to advance sites which seem to go against their own "Derivative Idea" rule for why startups fail (e.g. this round: a group bookmarking site, a themed video site which piggybacks on YouTube). It would be interesting if YC decided to have one round where they choose nothing but "hard problems" with huge potential.

Re: A Local Revolution?

#80

Post by eru »

david927 wrote: post #76
pg wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that the Industrial Revolution was localized mattered a lot to the regions that were left behind. It made them the victims in the ensuing era of colonialism.

That's true, but meaningless. History is only our friend when it applies. A lot of technology is now software based and thanks to the web, it is immediately distributed evenly to all those who have computers with internet access. While that still leaves out a large chunk of the world, it gives no substantial benefit to the place where the technology was born.

What about e.g. language barriers?
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