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Older Is Wiser: Study Shows Software Developers’ Skills Improve Over Time

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Re: Older Is Wiser: Study Shows Software Developers’ Skills Improve Over Time

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe research (sorry no link) is showing that older people tend to actually have much better focus than younger people, and better memory of what they were focusing on (in the absence of actual neurological problems, e.g., Alzheimers).

At least up to the age of 50 or so, at which point real memory begins to erode much faster than in prior decades.

There's this too though:

http://chronicle.com/article/article-content/129773/

"And the more complaints about memory they had, the more we saw this extra activation." When all was said and done, those women did just as well on the test as the noncomplainers. "My guess is there could be something happening in the brain, and people are trying to compensate for it with these extra areas," Ms. Dumas says. "And they are doing it successfully."

Re: Older Is Wiser: Study Shows Software Developers’ Skills Improve Over Time

#122

It is fundamentally hard to find good developers, but that is not because there are so few good developers, it is because there are so many bad developers. I meet great programmers all the time, but I never see them on job interview. The reason is because good developers do not apply directly to jobs. They find out about positions through their friends and move through their network, not through recruiters. And it's…

>> The reason is because good developers do not apply directly to jobs. They find out about positions through their friends and move through their network, not through recruiters.

So if I were to go by that then, I'm a bad programmer?

Re: Older Is Wiser: Study Shows Software Developers’ Skills Improve Over Time

#123
You guys don't get it. It's not about how old you are, it's about what kind of persona you project. If you are confident, tall, good looking, have all your hair, young enough _looking_ for your age, well rounded, intimidatingly brilliant, experienced, and professionally successful, then you are good to go - age does not matter. If, on the other hand, you are all washed up then yes age is a negative factor. This doesn't just apply to software programming, the same patterns occur with, e.g. investment bankers.

Re: Older Is Wiser: Study Shows Software Developers’ Skills Improve Over Time

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention younger workers are often more risk tolerant / seeking. If you're 43 years old, with a family to support and a mortgage, it might make perfect sense to take a safer job. If you're 20 with no family, no mortgage, etc. you sign up with Zuckerberg to 'change the world,' with little concern over whether it crashes and burns. I think that equation artificially pumps up the pop culture relation between youth…

> If you're 20 with no family, no mortgage, etc. you sign up with Zuckerberg to 'change the world,' with little concern over whether you crash and burn. Fixed that for you.

I don't think that's really fair. Even if you work on a failed startup and invested all your money in it, you still have more programming experience than you started with. And programming experience is worth plenty of money in our field.

Re: Older Is Wiser: Study Shows Software Developers’ Skills Improve Over Time

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're 20 with no family, no mortgage, etc. you sign up with Zuckerberg to 'change the world,' with little concern over whether you crash and burn. Fixed that for you.

I don't think that's really fair. Even if you work on a failed startup and invested all your money in it, you still have more programming experience than you started with. And programming experience is worth plenty of money in our field.

I'm actually referring to physical and mental health.

Re: Older Is Wiser: Study Shows Software Developers’ Skills Improve Over Time

#126
post #57
post #6

I am one of the older'ish programmers One day a young programmer flies into the office talking about the new MVC frameworks and how it would revolutionize how we write programs. He was mystified when I explained how MVC works to him without even looking at what framework he was ranting about. He asked how I knew? I told him it was invented at PARC in the 70's and I've used them starting in 1995 with the MFC C++ for d…

There is indeed very little new under the sun. A lot of stuff are just repackaging of old ideas. I remembered reading the Self language paper and thought it was cool as heck, objects all the way, no classes. Then later Javascript came along with its prototype and people thought it's the shit. I was like, whatever, it has been done before.

If I remember correctly Brendan Eich was originally promised that he could build Self for Netscape, but later due to various reasons had to change the syntax and all that.

Also the popularity of javascript in the geekdom is in my recollection fairly recent phenomenon. It became interesting only after ajax, before that it was a leper like php.

Re: Older Is Wiser: Study Shows Software Developers’ Skills Improve Over Time

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much the preference for youth has to do with the fact that younger workers are (1) generally cheaper and (2) more open to working longer hours since they are less likely to have families and more likely to be looking to make an impression.

Less experienced workers are typically cheaper because they're less productive. You may luck out hiring a super-productive, recent graduate on the cheap, but they'll quickly learn their worth. Your second point sounds purely anecdotal. My experience has shown just the opposite; older developers with families are much more committed because...well...they have families to support.

I can't speak for anyone else.. I'm an older developer, and a bit of a "rock star" so to speak. I know I'm at the pay ceiling, and peaked out into upper mgt a couple years ago, and never again. I'll accept where the pay is, and simply work where the best fit is. I've never been one to show up at a certain time every day (usually 9-ish).. but after lunch, I tend to get a lot more done than my contemporaries.

I try to at least be aware of what's going on around me. It's not always easy as there's a lot of new stuff every day, and when you finally get around to it, things change.

Most recently, I've been dabbling in NodeJS, as it's a good fit for one-off import scripts and backend systems. That allowed my to have a grunt script setup for the client parts of a new .Net project, where the backend is ASP.Net MVC ... I've seen the bundles out of the box in mvc, and feel that it's excessively painful.

By the same note, I can usually make a good judgement call as to when to plug my nose, and just make the patch work. Experience counts for a lot. And at the higher end the pay doesn't generally match your productivity... I'm a cog, but good enough at what I do that people tend to overlook my quirks regarding daily schedules.

For every prodigy I've seen (about 3 others in my career), I've seen a several dozen that were competent, not great, but get the job done, and several more dozen idiots who really should have a different career, and enough people that could be good, but can't break out of the same patterns they've used for over a decade to be more effective that I don't like thinking about it.

There are plenty of stereotypes, and plenty of exceptions. It's funny that SO is mentioned as the source in the article, as most of my best answers happen to come from me revisiting and updating older answers/questions with newer material. Beyond that it's pretty narrow as a focus, just tend to gear towards my interests.

Re: Older Is Wiser: Study Shows Software Developers’ Skills Improve Over Time

#128
Isn't it clear? Experienced developer can give you huge list what to do and why, and what not to do and yet again exactly why. I'm seen millions of ways writing extremely bad and unreliable code. I can tell exactly why not to write such code. Nothing kills more productivity than totally unreliable code. Use transactions, locking, handle exceptions, give clear error indicaton, log possible issues. Use auto-recovery, if possible. It's not that hard, it should be really obvious for anyone. Don't write stuff that totally kills performance, use batching, sane SQL queries, indexes, etc.

Re: Older Is Wiser: Study Shows Software Developers’ Skills Improve Over Time

#129

It is fundamentally hard to find good developers, but that is not because there are so few good developers, it is because there are so many bad developers. I meet great programmers all the time, but I never see them on job interview. The reason is because good developers do not apply directly to jobs. They find out about positions through their friends and move through their network, not through recruiters. And it's…

>> The reason is because good developers do not apply directly to jobs. They find out about positions through their friends and move through their network, not through recruiters. So if I were to go by that then, I'm a bad programmer?

You're likely a pie or a perhaps an '87 Datsun.

Re: Older Is Wiser: Study Shows Software Developers’ Skills Improve Over Time

#130
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL ... I am old! I learned MVC developing MFC apps back in the 90s!!

I resemble that remark... I'm also old. I was writing RDBMS in dBase, compiled with Clipper, on MS-DOS, in the early 1990's, when I was about 30 years of age. (I was the "old guy" 20 years ago) Wow! The decades just keep passing by with increasing relevant speed.

It is a well-documented fact that time passes as a percentage of life lived. There is far less relative distance between decades for me now than there was between my fourth and fifth birthdays. I have kids who have kids, and they weren't around for that last episode of MASH (left out the asterisks for formatting reasons) that I'm pretty sure (in what's left of my mind) was first aired a couple of years ago.
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