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Pirates playing a game dev simulator complain about piracy

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Re: Pirates playing a game dev simulator complain about piracy

#111

Post by padwan »

logicallee wrote: post #84
bvdbijl wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

one explanation might be that the posts were deleted because piracy isn't tolerated on those forums

The posts did not discuss piracy, only in-game dynamics. That's the point. The author also literally made up the lie that ONE minute after adding his torrent, look at all these pirates, this is a screenshot ONE minute after adding the torrent! Screenshots show torrent added a day ago. Also, it's neither here nor there but I personally would have linked to the posts in question in the write-up. However this is a matte…

I think they just added their own torrent-file in utorrent right after they created it, but didn't upload it to a tracker until the day after?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occams_razor

Re: Pirates playing a game dev simulator complain about piracy

#112

Post by eloisant »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #88
vy8vWJlco wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are people who go outside and drink from a stream (through a filter/firewall, of course), stealing? What about people who take in the scenery, or people who breath? Is nature a starving artist? I'm not for dumping toxic waste in the river, or stealing property, but the Internet is my environment, and copying data is not only cheap, that's what I pay my ISP to be able to do. IMHO, that makes copying as moral as breath…

Problem is , for everyone who will happily compensate the artist if they feel they got value there are probably ~100 people who will just keep it for free even if they feel they had value.

That's not really a problem, unless you have some server costs or something.

The question game developers should be asking is not "How many people will illegally copy it?" but "How many people will buy it?"

It doesn't matter if there are 100 free riders for 1 customers, as long as you have enough customers.

Re: Pirates playing a game dev simulator complain about piracy

#114

Post by rubinelli »

chii wrote: post #100
CJefferson wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important figure (for developers) is not what proportion of pirates would buy the game, but what proportion of possible buyers will pirate instead. My experience with my social group is that this second group is quite high. I know (for example) people who have bought many xbox 360 games (as these are hard to pirate) and have never bought a PC game, despite playing similar number of games on each.

so in other words, they pirated PC games, and used their limited resources to buy the games they couldn't pirate. Thus, the total amount of money they spent had been the same whether they pirated or not (just distributed differently, to different platforms). Had they not been able to pirate PC games, they might've spent a few more coins on PC games, and a few less coins on the xbox games - the industry wouldn't have…

Yeah, they rewarded the companies that hose their customers with crippling DRM and release the same old FPS and sport game with prettier graphics year after year, and penalized those that trust their fans and are trying to push the envelope in gameplay and storytelling. That's a fantastic result.

(EDIT: sorry for the rant, but this stuff really gets under my skin. If you are too cheap to spend 8 bucks on an indie game, SAY SO, don't come up with rationalizations about how the world is a better place for it)

Re: Pirates playing a game dev simulator complain about piracy

#115

Post by forwardslash »

logicallee wrote: post #84
bvdbijl wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

one explanation might be that the posts were deleted because piracy isn't tolerated on those forums

The posts did not discuss piracy, only in-game dynamics. That's the point. The author also literally made up the lie that ONE minute after adding his torrent, look at all these pirates, this is a screenshot ONE minute after adding the torrent! Screenshots show torrent added a day ago. Also, it's neither here nor there but I personally would have linked to the posts in question in the write-up. However this is a matte…

You can add a torrent to the client without seeding it; I tested this myself [1]. I could see the author preparing the torrents ahead of time before uploading the torrent files and starting to seed them. At that point the client would still indicate when he added the torrent.

1: http://i.imgur.com/i0vGOm0.png

Re: Pirates playing a game dev simulator complain about piracy

#116

Post by Millennium »

algorias wrote: post #15

While I think this is a very clever idea, it's also somewhat dishonest. In the game world, pirates cause studios to go bankrupt. In the real world, the causal link is not as clear. People arguing that piracy is ruining gamedev routinely ignore the fact that those who pirate don't necessarily have the means to buy many games; their choice is purely between pirating and not playing. Of those 90% or more who pirate the…

We ignore it because it has no relevance. You are not Jean Valjean, stealing a loaf of bread to save your sister's child.

Re: Pirates playing a game dev simulator complain about piracy

#117

Post by ekianjo »

algorias wrote: post #15

While I think this is a very clever idea, it's also somewhat dishonest. In the game world, pirates cause studios to go bankrupt. In the real world, the causal link is not as clear. People arguing that piracy is ruining gamedev routinely ignore the fact that those who pirate don't necessarily have the means to buy many games; their choice is purely between pirating and not playing. Of those 90% or more who pirate the…

Yeah, and its more or less the same thing as Hollywood claiming piracy or copying destroys their industry. I think in general game developers miss the point about piracy: - its free advertising. Just like radio is for music. - maybe pirates will not buy your game this time but they may buy the next. - simply your game is not attractive enough and most people dont want to spend any money on it. It's not because your game is cheap that it's worth buying.

If you complain so much about piracy, go in free to play mode and make your fans buy extensions or addons. This is known to work well if your game is designed around it.

Re: Pirates playing a game dev simulator complain about piracy

#118

Post by benmmurphy »

vy8vWJlco wrote: post #95
jiggy2011 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is , for everyone who will happily compensate the artist if they feel they got value there are probably ~100 people who will just keep it for free even if they feel they had value.

That's only a problem if you consider a copy as damage. (I haven't seen a convincing argument.) There are also lots of factors in a financial proposition. Some people give away free samples, others invest in an education. It's interesting that iTunes is doing so well, without mandatory DRM, while copying has only gotten easier...

You have this product which has high fixed costs to produce but zero marginal costs to produce an extra one. If everyone chose to pay zero then the product would not be made and everyone would be worse off. By choosing to pay zero you are free-riding on other people who choose to pay non-zero. It is possible that piracy could bring about:

a) higher prices to other consumers who have to pay a larger share of the fixed costs because other people are choosing to pay zero. this is not really a cost more a fairness problem.

b) some products not being produced because not enough people are willing to pay the higher price to pay off the fixed costs. even though there might be a price point X that is lower than what it is worth to some of the zero payers which would result in the fixed costs being paid. this is a real economic cost

Re: Pirates playing a game dev simulator complain about piracy

#119

Post by pgsandstrom »

chii wrote: post #100
CJefferson wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important figure (for developers) is not what proportion of pirates would buy the game, but what proportion of possible buyers will pirate instead. My experience with my social group is that this second group is quite high. I know (for example) people who have bought many xbox 360 games (as these are hard to pirate) and have never bought a PC game, despite playing similar number of games on each.

so in other words, they pirated PC games, and used their limited resources to buy the games they couldn't pirate. Thus, the total amount of money they spent had been the same whether they pirated or not (just distributed differently, to different platforms). Had they not been able to pirate PC games, they might've spent a few more coins on PC games, and a few less coins on the xbox games - the industry wouldn't have…

It seems as if his friends buys game that can't be pirated and pirates games that can be pirated. Yet somehow you come to the conclusion that they would still buy for the same amount if pirating wasn't possible?

Re: Pirates playing a game dev simulator complain about piracy

#120

Post by StavrosK »

lucian1900 wrote: post #97
JonnieCache wrote: post #17

Yesterday I bought some mp3s legally off amazon. They were 128 kbit/s. I deleted them out of rage/spite and ordered the CD, which is out of print and so all the money went to a second hand record dealer. If only I'd had recourse to piracy in that instance!

Although in almost all cases 128kbps is just fine and you couldn't tell the difference.

In no case is that true for MP3. The difference between 128 and 160 kbits is painfully obvious.
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