Great article. Does convey some of the harsh realities. However, I didn't understand why outline such a well written article with a meaningless sensational headline. "Drowning in its own excreta", really?
India is drowning in its own excreta
41–50 of 137 posts
Re: India is drowning in its own excreta
#42[deleted]
Most countries I care to live in don't have issues of open defecation and water sources contaminated with shit.
Generally, people care about basic hygiene issues before they look at the other stuff. If a country's hygiene is so bad it has a 100x larger chance that it might kill you, the rest is irrelevant.
Between that and the corruption, India is one country I'm not setting foot in for the foreseeable future. It's a shame, because it is also a cradle of humanity with much history, but I guess that doesn't stop it from turning into a shithole... (Quite literally)
Re: India is drowning in its own excreta
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is what happens when a plethora of cultures have migrated to a region, each culture growing it's own little bubble. India has been a recipient of migrants from Central Asia, North Asia and Europe over the last two thousand years. India to it's smallest unit is a hive of ghettos, each ghetto not caring about the other one, while striving in the futile exercise of ensuring it's own survival. People don't care abou…
I am confused by why this would be relevant since generally water, sewage, and garbage collection is managed by local municipalities. At least that's the case in every country I've been to (which is many, although sadly India is not yet one of them).
It's about the mentality of keeping your house clean by dumping your filth in the streets. "It's not my problem", is the common refrain here. And when citizen's don't care, the government is just going to be the reflection of that. We are about to reach the tipping point within this decade though. I see citizen watch groups forming every day. Protest becoming more violent and widespread vigilante justice in some far-fetched areas.
Re: India is drowning in its own excreta
#44[deleted]
Most countries I care to live in don't have issues of open defecation and water sources contaminated with shit. Generally, people care about basic hygiene issues before they look at the other stuff. If a country's hygiene is so bad it has a 100x larger chance that it might kill you, the rest is irrelevant. Between that and the corruption, India is one country I'm not setting foot in for the foreseeable future. It's a…
[deleted]
Re: India is drowning in its own excreta
#45Having been to India quite recently (and being Indian), I talked to a lot of family members there about this issue, among others, as I saw it happen time and again. One of the things that really frustrated me was the pure lack of accountability in general. I said 'among others' earlier because I am also referring to environment issues such as littering and pollution. The people there aren't dumb--they know all of the…
>You can't blame the government Of course you can. And you should. This is all about terrible - and in many cases non-existent- governance. Widespread public problems this this cannot be solved by individual citizens or organizations. They need the power, money and resources of a government. > the country is so populated that it is extremely hard to make this drastic of an imposition and follow through with it. Popul…
> Widespread public problems this this cannot be solved by individual citizens or organizations. They need the power, money and resources of a government.
More to the point, they need an entity that is both powerful enough to force change and not bound by the same incentives that the polluting companies are.
It's down to a Nash equilibrium, which is the stable strategy that obtains when everyone makes the best decision possible for them knowing what everyone else has decided. There's no way for anyone to unilaterally change their minds without losing something, which is why the strategy is stable even if it is completely insane.
In this case, the stable strategy is to pollute and not invest anything in cleanup, because the first company to unilaterally invest in cleaning up will lose profits relative to all of its competitors who aren't cleaning anything. That isn't acceptable. Therefore, Mumbai has brown oceans and Beijing has brown air.
The only way out is for some powerful entity that isn't bound by the same Nash equilibrium to step in and force a new equilibrium state by imposing penalties on the polluters. That's something that, realistically, only the government can do.
(What happens when governments get locked in a bad Nash equilibrium? Well, you get the Cold War, where Mutually Assured Destruction prevailed despite nobody really wanting to end the world in nuclear flame.)
Re: India is drowning in its own excreta
#46Having been to India quite recently (and being Indian), I talked to a lot of family members there about this issue, among others, as I saw it happen time and again. One of the things that really frustrated me was the pure lack of accountability in general. I said 'among others' earlier because I am also referring to environment issues such as littering and pollution. The people there aren't dumb--they know all of the…
> but they would rather not care than care for the most part. Herein lies the fundamental problem...if you would rather not care, well there's no solution to that.
I concur. It is the Apna Kaam Banta, Toh Bhaad mein jaaye Junta (Translation - As long as my work gets done, I don't care) attitude.
Re: India is drowning in its own excreta
#47Overpopulation is a problem because one government can only properly manage a limited number of people (by "properly manage" I mean not control, that's easy to do by controlling the upper class and having decent police/military/intelligence systems, but provide adequate living conditions for, actually solve health and education issues etc.).
Compare to the US ratio of population of ~300M population to 1 government (even ignoring that in the US states have real autonomy and are mostly self governing!) to India's ratio of ~1200M to 1 government. Similar ratios for European countries too. India should be at split in at least 4 different countries, with different governments, internal and external policies, armies and maybe even a "healthy" dose of conflict/competition between them. It would be worse for some new countries and for some people, but on average better for most. Sticking together is not the way to solve a poverty type problem!
Re: India is drowning in its own excreta
#48Having been to India quite recently (and being Indian), I talked to a lot of family members there about this issue, among others, as I saw it happen time and again. One of the things that really frustrated me was the pure lack of accountability in general. I said 'among others' earlier because I am also referring to environment issues such as littering and pollution. The people there aren't dumb--they know all of the…
Depends.
If you want to blame someone else for actions you take/do not take.
Witch hunt never ended, nor it will.
This is life, in whatever form it takes, it all comes in waves and goes. Look at this all on different scale.
Look at India(any place) from space, where some parts are healthy, some parts are like cancer an some parts destroy themselves.
After time it all passes and something else comes into place.
Only way for you to survive is, if you voluntarily do it yourself.
Re: India is drowning in its own excreta
#49What most people do not realize is this: Mumbai also has the most expensive house in the world - thats right, in the world: http://statspotting.com/the-most-expensive-home-in-the-world...
For the curious: http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/30/home-india-billion-forbesli.... Tastes differ, let's say.
Re: India is drowning in its own excreta
#50Having been to India quite recently (and being Indian), I talked to a lot of family members there about this issue, among others, as I saw it happen time and again. One of the things that really frustrated me was the pure lack of accountability in general. I said 'among others' earlier because I am also referring to environment issues such as littering and pollution. The people there aren't dumb--they know all of the…
> The people there aren't dumb--they know all of these actions have harmful and negative effects on others' help and the general environment, but they would rather not care than care for the most part. Well that's just disgusting. I don't think you could pay me enough money to step foot in that country.
It's a bad situation to be sure, but it's still rude to denigrate the entire country like that.