Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007) • Hacker News Board

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#11

Post by iigs » Tue, Apr 14, 2009, 8:36 PM UTC

rcs wrote: post #3

I can say, w\o hyperbole, that radical honesty ruined my life. Do not, I repeat do not believe that people are generally good, want to help you, will appreciate your honesty. Now, I didn't do anything stupid like telling my boss that I'd like to sleep with his daughter, but, when he asked me where I saw myself in 5 years I did say that I wanted to start my own business. Our relationship went from great to icy. Over t…

I can say, w\o hyperbole, that radical honesty ruined my life.

Do you truly feel that your life is ruined? It sounds like you are/were in a bad situation, but do you not see yourself bouncing back eventually?

(some brutal honesty here, if you'll permit me) You need to take responsibility for your life. You got dealt a shitty hand, but what is past is past. You have skills and aspirations and you are the only person that can apply the skills toward the aspirations.

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#12

Post by petercooper » Tue, Apr 14, 2009, 8:40 PM UTC

I hope someone else can remember this, but wasn't there a link around here recently (possibly elsewhere) about how it was speculated that the ability to lie was thought to distinguish us from other animals? That is, lying is a concept associated with intelligence?

Of course, I could be wrong, and am merely trying to make a point without standing behind it, so that I can avoid the humiliation of being called out on it.

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#13

Post by petercooper » Tue, Apr 14, 2009, 8:43 PM UTC

rcs wrote: post #3

I can say, w\o hyperbole, that radical honesty ruined my life. Do not, I repeat do not believe that people are generally good, want to help you, will appreciate your honesty. Now, I didn't do anything stupid like telling my boss that I'd like to sleep with his daughter, but, when he asked me where I saw myself in 5 years I did say that I wanted to start my own business. Our relationship went from great to icy. Over t…

I also wouldn't advise one other form of lying he partakes in:

I lie to the IRS. I always take more deductions than are justified.

He must be nuts to state this publicly.

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#14

Post by donaldc » Tue, Apr 14, 2009, 8:47 PM UTC

rcs wrote: post #3

I can say, w\o hyperbole, that radical honesty ruined my life. Do not, I repeat do not believe that people are generally good, want to help you, will appreciate your honesty. Now, I didn't do anything stupid like telling my boss that I'd like to sleep with his daughter, but, when he asked me where I saw myself in 5 years I did say that I wanted to start my own business. Our relationship went from great to icy. Over t…

What do you mean, you couldn't find a new job? It sounds like you had at least a year from when things got icy to when your life was destroyed. If you can't find another job in a year, perhaps the great disaster wasn't all your employer's fault.

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#15

Post by randallsquared » Tue, Apr 14, 2009, 8:59 PM UTC

petercooper wrote: post #12

I hope someone else can remember this, but wasn't there a link around here recently (possibly elsewhere) about how it was speculated that the ability to lie was thought to distinguish us from other animals? That is, lying is a concept associated with intelligence? Of course, I could be wrong, and am merely trying to make a point without standing behind it, so that I can avoid the humiliation of being called out on it…

Dogs and cats can and do lie, by trying to cover up things they've done (literally, usually), and by trying to direct your attention away from where it's covered up.

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#16

Post by thismat » Tue, Apr 14, 2009, 8:59 PM UTC

rcs wrote: post #3

I can say, w\o hyperbole, that radical honesty ruined my life. Do not, I repeat do not believe that people are generally good, want to help you, will appreciate your honesty. Now, I didn't do anything stupid like telling my boss that I'd like to sleep with his daughter, but, when he asked me where I saw myself in 5 years I did say that I wanted to start my own business. Our relationship went from great to icy. Over t…

I practice this on a daily basis as I don't even believe in using lying as a social tool.

Sometimes it's best to not saying anything when you don't have a good answer, or the answer is inappropriate.

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#17

Post by paulgb » Tue, Apr 14, 2009, 9:42 PM UTC

randallsquared wrote: post #15

petercooper wrote: post #12

I hope someone else can remember this, but wasn't there a link around here recently (possibly elsewhere) about how it was speculated that the ability to lie was thought to distinguish us from other animals? That is, lying is a concept associated with intelligence? Of course, I could be wrong, and am merely trying to make a point without standing behind it, so that I can avoid the humiliation of being called out on it…

Dogs and cats can and do lie, by trying to cover up things they've done (literally, usually), and by trying to direct your attention away from where it's covered up.

How do you define lying, though? Does the animal have intent to deceive, or does he just have a cause/effect memory that makes it behave in ways we anthropomorphize as lying?

I've seen some dogs do some pretty clever things, and I think they have more brains than most people give them credit for, but I don't think they intentionally deceive.

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#18

Post by DaniFong » Tue, Apr 14, 2009, 11:20 PM UTC

I think in some sense that Blanton is advocating an intellectually lazy kind of radical honesty. It's not communicating to excrete whatever verbalizations come to mind because there is no one thing on your mind. You are forced to censor, or at least edit, what you say, by the limitations of the channel.

The real value, I think, in honesty, is that it brings one's thoughts out in the open to work with, instead of sapping one's energy and directing it towards the construction of some facade.

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#19

Post by krav » Tue, Apr 14, 2009, 11:35 PM UTC

rcs wrote: post #3

I can say, w\o hyperbole, that radical honesty ruined my life. Do not, I repeat do not believe that people are generally good, want to help you, will appreciate your honesty. Now, I didn't do anything stupid like telling my boss that I'd like to sleep with his daughter, but, when he asked me where I saw myself in 5 years I did say that I wanted to start my own business. Our relationship went from great to icy. Over t…

Listen, it's a lot simpler than this. You took an action: honesty. Your boss responded: icy. Your next action should be: what do I do with this response? If it's sitting and doing nothing in your office, then you will bear the fruits of that.

On the other hand, if you took that time to focus on what you wanted - start your own business - you could be living your dream right now.

It's never too late. Life isn't our circumstances. It's what we do with our circumstances.

I applaud you for being honest with your boss. He handled it like a simpleton. A true leader would either inspire you to stay or inspire you to give your all while you're there.

Given where you are now, be honest with yourself, dust yourself off, and go start that business!

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#20

Post by randallsquared » Tue, Apr 14, 2009, 11:49 PM UTC

paulgb wrote: post #17

randallsquared wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dogs and cats can and do lie, by trying to cover up things they've done (literally, usually), and by trying to direct your attention away from where it's covered up.

How do you define lying, though? Does the animal have intent to deceive, or does he just have a cause/effect memory that makes it behave in ways we anthropomorphize as lying? I've seen some dogs do some pretty clever things, and I think they have more brains than most people give them credit for, but I don't think they intentionally deceive.

If you're asking if I think the dog is consciously lying, then no, because that presupposes consciousness (that is, that the dog is a person). Do I believe that the dog is engaging in the same behavior that in a person we would call "lying"? Yup. Intent only matters if there's someone to do the intending. Deception, however, is an activity that needs no intention -- it evolved before consciousness.