Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30 • Hacker News Board

Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30

#231

Post by rscale » Sun, Apr 28, 2013, 12:16 AM UTC

tunesmith wrote: post #227

rscale wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using the adjusted close assumes that you put your dividend receipts into a mattress so it's still slightly low, but I doubt that's more than .1% or .2% for a typical portfolio over a moderate timeframe. I wholeheartedly agree with you that it's dangerous to bet your retirement on a level of return that many won't achieve.

Actually, can you explain that more? Since yahoo adjusted close says it takes dividends into account, I took that to be the same as immediately reinvesting your dividends in the same holding. You're saying that instead, it's the same as issuing the dividends as cash and then forgetting about it? If so, then how do people actually backtest long term holdings to assume reinvested dividends? As far as free historical da…

I was wrong. I thought Yahoo adjusted for dividends incompletely but they appear to handle them fully.

My apologies for the confusion.

Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30

#232

Post by hispanic » Sun, Apr 28, 2013, 12:57 AM UTC

tuomasj wrote: post #167

georgecmu wrote: post #63

early retirement doesn’t only happen to Powerball winners and those who luck into a big inheritance. Right. It also happens to those who get lucky in the stock market, and chose the right job at the right time. http://money.msn.com/retirement/article.aspx?post=dd544488-f... I was able to save more: $5,000 into the retirement account, $3,000 into an employee stock purchase plan, and $10,000 in cash. Year 2 'stash: $23…

I have given a lot of thought on this subject as well. I think the first few months will go nicely, putting money into savings and spending wisely. But I have a feeling that keeping up with the lifestyle is hard for most of the people. Your pace is frustratingly slow, and you really need to trust that the lifestyle you are living will pay off someday. Just to scratch my own itch, I've built a finance independence cal…

Cool little app. However, I'd like to see you raise the artificially low maximums you've put in place for the "Initial Investment" and "Monthly Investment" inputs. If you did, I'd be able to make use of it. (I'm 38 and definitely not "starting out".) It appears that you're making the assumption that the "Returns per Year" percentage input should also be used when figuring monthly income. I disagree with that. I'm comfortable guessing at a relatively high (7 or 8%) annual return on investment while building my savings, which would be derived from a combination of dividend income and capital gains. But, when it comes to living on a fixed income, I'm tempted to guess at a lower annual return (4% - dividend income only) because the negative consequences of being wrong are fairly high. My two cents.

Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30

#233

Post by jamesaguilar » Sun, Apr 28, 2013, 1:41 AM UTC

tripzilch wrote: post #160

jamesaguilar wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really the same. If I pick a lifestyle for myself, that's not a judgment on other people's lifestyles. If I pick a lifestyle then start calling other people wasteful, that is a judgment on others. Be it true or not, that rubs some people the wrong way. Personally I don't care if he judges me. He's living within a few tens of percent above the poverty line (based on his comments in this article). Of course th…

> Be it true or not, that rubs some people the wrong way. Huh? If it is true and it rubs some people the wrong way, is that bad? > He's living within a few tens of percent above the poverty line I'm not sure what living a few tens of percents above the poverty-line really means, unless you mean tenths of percents? Still, that is not what poverty is . There are more than enough people in the US living in actual povert…

> Huh? If it is true and it rubs some people the wrong way, is that bad?

Do you go around telling ugly people they are ugly? Fat people they are fat? Dummies they are dumb? Why not? Is it because it rubs them the wrong way, despite it being true? Is it wrong for them to feel that way, even if you are right? IMO it is neither wrong nor right to feel that way. It is just how you feel.

> Tens of percent

I meant tens of percent. According to the numbers he posted he's something like 20-30% above the poverty line. That's a few (3ish) tens of percent.

Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30

#234

Post by DifE-Q » Sun, Apr 28, 2013, 2:41 AM UTC

kragen wrote: post #210

DifE-Q wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I travelled around the middle east for 6 months spending $100 per month in 1997. I hitch hiked and slept with Bedouin or in monasteries. It is possible in other parts of the world too - maybe not Europe though. Save Europe for when you are rich.

How did the sleeping with Bedouins thing work? Do you, like, walk into a coffee house in a Bedouin neighborhood and hope to meet someone who will invite you to stay at their house? Or is it more a meeting on the road kind of thing? Do the monasteries charge you hotel-room-like fees, or do you have to belong to their religion, or what?

Well...there are no Bedouin neighborhoods. I am talking about Bedouin that are still Bedouin traveling around in the desert. So yes...meet them, befriend them...sleep the night and get fed. But sometimes you can stay a week or so and help work, etc. Let them know where you want to go and they will tell you how to get there..and hook you up with more contacts. Sometimes those are family that live in towns and you stay with them at their house. The monasteries and convents were about $10 to even 7$ a night in Syria and Jordan and included a clean room and a breakfast. Convents were generally about $5 more expensive and the women there were kind of mean.....so we went to the monasteries most often.

We did meet people on the road that helped us out too...but most of the time is was from walking around in the remote parts of a town or area and looking lost or walking up to a Bedouin tent.

Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30

#235

Post by PKop » Sun, Apr 28, 2013, 4:12 AM UTC

jamesaguilar wrote: post #233

tripzilch wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Be it true or not, that rubs some people the wrong way. Huh? If it is true and it rubs some people the wrong way, is that bad? > He's living within a few tens of percent above the poverty line I'm not sure what living a few tens of percents above the poverty-line really means, unless you mean tenths of percents? Still, that is not what poverty is . There are more than enough people in the US living in actual povert…

> Huh? If it is true and it rubs some people the wrong way, is that bad? Do you go around telling ugly people they are ugly? Fat people they are fat? Dummies they are dumb? Why not? Is it because it rubs them the wrong way, despite it being true? Is it wrong for them to feel that way, even if you are right? IMO it is neither wrong nor right to feel that way. It is just how you feel. > Tens of percent I meant tens of…

Is he indiscriminately leveling criticisms? Of characteristics people have no control over (ugly)? Or is he perhaps criticizing choices and behavior, of which people can change and pick and choose themselves? Hmm? Not a valid analogy you made there. Do people make value judgments about diet and exercise so as to help so called fat people get into better shape? All the time they do, yes. If I care about someone, and think they are making choices that are detrimental to themselves, I'll tell them. If you don't, because it may hurt their feelings, are you doing them a favor?

Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30

#236

Post by jvm » Sun, Apr 28, 2013, 5:53 AM UTC

millstone wrote: post #78

nlawalker wrote: post #65

I always recommend the following two posts to anyone who has discovered MMM, as I think they best sum up his context, history, mindset, goals and living situation - all of which are good to understand before you start taking what he writes as guidance: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/15/a-brief-history-of... http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/06/01/raising-a-family-o... It's important to keep in mind that his…

Good posts. But for the other side, read these posts: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/07/27/youll-never-be-nor... http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/07/22/protecting-your-mo... It seems as if the lifestyle has colored their ability to enjoy things like going out for ice cream, or dinner with friends.

They actually made a big point about the fact that they had fun going out to dinner so it didn't ruin their enjoyment of the night. They juts also (not unreasonably) noted that $30 for a beer and a salad is sort of ludicrous unless there's something really special about it.

Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30

#237

Post by learc83 » Sun, Apr 28, 2013, 6:44 AM UTC

newbie12 wrote: post #172

mike_esspe wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you travel on budget, you usually don't take trains, but hitchhike. And you can always get a bed with couchsurfing.org

Hitchhiking is pretty dangerous. Better to use a car-sharing board. I once took a long-distance Greyhound bus to Florida at Christmas, which was filled with homeless wanderers who had splurged for the bus ticket because they said hitchhiking was too dangerous. It isn't an option at all for women and most of the men had stories about being robbed, aggressively solicited for sex, or even having been shot at while walki…

Can you show me an example of a car-sharing board? A quick google search showed me I obviously don't know what to search for.

Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30

#238

Post by cmccabe » Sun, Apr 28, 2013, 7:29 AM UTC

If everyone was as stingy with their money as this guy is, the economy would crash. We need spending to drive growth and provide employment. If everyone hoards cash and refuses to spend it, you get the crash of 1929 and the Great Depression.

Time invested in saving money is not always worth it. If you're making the equivalent of $50 an hour, an hour spent agonizing over how to save $25 is a net loss for you. You are not maximizing your utility.

Saving money will never be an end in itself. It is only a means. Who is more admirable: the guy who saves obsesses over spending the minimum amount of money and lives in a cabin Montana, or the guy who goes deep into debt to get a PhD, become a doctor, and save lives? I think we all know the answer to that. I'm not saying that everyone needs to get a PhD or that you shouldn't go off in a cabin if that's what you want, but don't put yourself on a pedestal for your self-indulgence.

Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30

#239

Post by tomp » Sun, Apr 28, 2013, 7:53 AM UTC

futhey wrote: post #157

Swizec wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$500/month? But a simple train ticket that takes you 600km away will set you back $100. Here in Europe at least. And I probably spend $500/month just on food and caffeine. Hell, the basic government fees (insurance, pension etc.) to keep my sole proprietorship running costs me 300 euro/month. I really don't see how you could live on the road on $500/month, you're making stuff up.

Eurobus is so comfortable and inexpensive, I frequently found myself opting to spend more nights asleep on the bus when a comfortable hostel bed was available. I've done less than $500/mo in South America and S.E. Asia (Much nicer tropical beaches and interesting places). Also, American's wouldn't be spending 300 euro / month on insurance / etc. (Presuming this because the figure was quoted in dollars). I really like…

I'm very curious about how you traveled for so cheap in South America. Could I ask you to elaborate? What did you do, mainly (sleep in hotels, stay in appartments in cities, travel around by bus/car/bicycle, backpack and sleep in tents, ...)?

Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30

#240

Post by im3w1l » Sun, Apr 28, 2013, 11:12 AM UTC

hispanic wrote: post #232

tuomasj wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have given a lot of thought on this subject as well. I think the first few months will go nicely, putting money into savings and spending wisely. But I have a feeling that keeping up with the lifestyle is hard for most of the people. Your pace is frustratingly slow, and you really need to trust that the lifestyle you are living will pay off someday. Just to scratch my own itch, I've built a finance independence cal…

Cool little app. However, I'd like to see you raise the artificially low maximums you've put in place for the "Initial Investment" and "Monthly Investment" inputs. If you did, I'd be able to make use of it. (I'm 38 and definitely not "starting out".) It appears that you're making the assumption that the "Returns per Year" percentage input should also be used when figuring monthly income. I disagree with that. I'm com…

It is an ugly hack, but /you/ could just scale initial investment, monthly investment and desired monthly income by the same factor.