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Why I am building a product with a tiny market

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Re: Why I am building a product with a tiny market

#71

Post by littleidea »

tsergiu wrote: post #53
littleidea wrote: post #52

Nothing about what has been built or blogged makes me believe this person really understands products or markets. The logic of the points that are being made is flawed, starting with repeatedly conflating building a product for a small market with solving a small and simple problem. These are not the same. In general, solving problems for small markets is just as hard as solving problems for big ones. My advice is, a…

There's no need to be so aggressive. I think you misunderstood my argument. That may have been entirely my fault; I'm still learning to write. Small and simple problems are rare in large markets because everybody is chasing after them. The low-hanging fruit get picked very quickly, and you need to produce more to reach the bleeding edge. By contrast, smaller markets have more low-hanging fruit simply because there ar…

My apologies if you were offended, I didn't think that I was particularly aggressive.

Certainly not compared to what is possible...

I think I understood your argument, I just disagree with what you are asserting and your conclusion.

There is plenty of low-hanging fruit in big markets, because it is a proportionally bigger tree.

If you add the constraint that you want to do everything on your own, then the markets and problems you can reasonably approach are smaller, but I still argue that from a return on investment perspective, you should be looking for the largest market opportunity that you understand enough to build.

If you care to discuss in person, I'm on twitter with the same name. @ me and we figure out the best way to facilitate a discussion.

Re: Why I am building a product with a tiny market

#72

Post by wisty »

Peaker wrote: post #64
downandout wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and as the fifth most popular site in the world, that is a pittance. They could be making billions with unobtrusive advertising. Given their traffic, the fact that they only raised $25 million last year means that nearly all of their users ignored their pleas for help. Further, when they do their begging, it is very obtrusive and disruptive to the user experience. Where alternative revenue models are available,…

What revenue models? Advertising could skew/bias Wikipedia

Yes, but the point is - they don't get much revenue. About 2c per user. Which might be fine for their purposes.

Re: Why I am building a product with a tiny market

#73

Post by frakkingcylons »

billnguyen wrote: post #69
Peaker wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What revenue models? Advertising could skew/bias Wikipedia

why would advertising skew the factual information presented in wikipedia? Advertising is based off content, content isn't based off advertising.

That's true only if a site strictly uses a contextual advertising system. Most high-traffic sites sell specific ad space and time (AKA an ad campaign) to the highest bidder in order to supplement their normal advertising network.

Even if Wikipedia used the most unobtrusive, low-key advertising system possible, people would still react negatively because Wikipedia is known for having no advertising whatsoever.

Re: Why I am building a product with a tiny market

#74

Post by Ensorceled »

littleidea wrote: post #68
Ensorceled wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a small market the MVP will be more salable than in a larger market; regardless of the complexity of the MVP. That's the OP's point. Any other reason you think this person has no understanding of markets? Because so far you've got nothing.

What makes you believe that an MVP will be more salable in a small market? I see no model or evidence to support this thinking. I also believe you are too focused on 'minimal' at the expense of 'viable' in MVP. If you have relatively a relatively viable product, where would you rather sell? I'll take a big market every time. If the point is what you say, then why does the original post repeatedly return to the theme…

I spent the first half of my career in the startups in medical software, an industry where the minimal viable product includes a FDA submission. So, no, I am not focused on the 'minimal' at the expense of 'viable'.

In another response you say you don't think you were particularly aggressive. I think you need to evaluate how you present your arguments because you have, twice now, used unnecessary ad hominems.

You've reversed his entire story. He's saying "I built this simple thing and because it's in a small market with no entrenched gorilla's, I'm getting traction, you can too." It's an anecdote, not data, I agree, it does go towards establishing the point he is trying to make.

Re: Why I am building a product with a tiny market

#76

Post by jcrites »

billnguyen wrote: post #69
Peaker wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What revenue models? Advertising could skew/bias Wikipedia

why would advertising skew the factual information presented in wikipedia? Advertising is based off content, content isn't based off advertising.

One concern I saw mentioned was that after receiving advertising revenue, Wikipedia might become reliant on it, which would allow an advertiser to exert influence over the organization, such as demanding for articles to be removed that are negative to the advertiser's interests, with a threat to pull advertising funding.

But yes, I agree, it seems possible for WP to accept advertisement without compromising on its core values. Decide in advance never to give in to such demands, and do not take the funding for granted.

Deciding not to accept advertising might be short-sighted. With enough years of advertising revenue, Wikipedia might be able to work toward financial independence (where returns on investment exceed costs), and build an endowment like the sort that powers top universities.

Re: Why I am building a product with a tiny market

#77

Post by downandout »

frakkingcylons wrote: post #73
billnguyen wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would advertising skew the factual information presented in wikipedia? Advertising is based off content, content isn't based off advertising.

That's true only if a site strictly uses a contextual advertising system. Most high-traffic sites sell specific ad space and time (AKA an ad campaign) to the highest bidder in order to supplement their normal advertising network. Even if Wikipedia used the most unobtrusive, low-key advertising system possible, people would still react negatively because Wikipedia is known for having no advertising whatsoever.

Contextual alone would completely eliminate their need for panhandling, and would also enable drastic improvements to their infrastructure. Better for users, better for everyone.

Re: Why I am building a product with a tiny market

#78

Post by littleidea »

Ensorceled wrote: post #74
littleidea wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you believe that an MVP will be more salable in a small market? I see no model or evidence to support this thinking. I also believe you are too focused on 'minimal' at the expense of 'viable' in MVP. If you have relatively a relatively viable product, where would you rather sell? I'll take a big market every time. If the point is what you say, then why does the original post repeatedly return to the theme…

I spent the first half of my career in the startups in medical software, an industry where the minimal viable product includes a FDA submission. So, no, I am not focused on the 'minimal' at the expense of 'viable'. In another response you say you don't think you were particularly aggressive. I think you need to evaluate how you present your arguments because you have, twice now, used unnecessary ad hominems. You've r…

Disagreeing with people is not an ad hominem.

Nor is being disagreeable for that matter...

I was dismissive and probably impolite. I apologized.

You didn't answer my question, so I'll ask it again, what makes you believe that an MVP will be more salable in a small market?

You say 'regardless of the complexity of the MVP', but that invalidates every point the author was trying to make. Point 1, 2 and 3 in the original article all hinge on the level of effort of the MVP.

Where you worked is not something that changes anything about your position.

I reversed nothing. The author asserts some things that are provably false, then asks 'What are your thoughts? Should your first product be aimed at a small market?'

There is traction because something was built that solves a problem. The size of the market and entrenchment of the incumbents are not the same thing. This person can do everything because the problem and solution are small enough to allow that, not because of the size of the market. Further, attributing causal relationships to the size of the market and the traction is a mistake that leads to sub-optimal strategies.

Those are my thoughts. Do what you will.

Re: Why I am building a product with a tiny market

#79

Post by guilloche »

As a small market pursuer, I had to say that a tiny market is different from tiny effort.

I developed torapp guilloche designer (http://www.torapp.info) for security printing industry, which is definitely a tiny market. But it did not mean less competition, and it is in fact much more complicated than a regular graphic editor like adobe illustrator and coreldraw.

Besides regular editing facilities in AI or coreldraw, I spent tremendous effort to handle all possible math formulas/curves as comupter algebraic system (CAS).

I would recommend people to pursue as big market as possible.

Re: Why I am building a product with a tiny market

#80

Post by imechura »

I don't think I am in your target market based on your current positioning, however I am in a position where I would be involved in the decision as to whether my company would pay money for something like this.

The company I work for (as an SOA architect) uses regex heavily for many mission critical applications. It costs me 100s of Ks in testing effort when a back-end format experiences major change. We usually don't find a lot of bugs in testing but each missed parsing requirement could mean millions to the bottom line thus justifying the investment in man hours.

If you think support of regex is a tiny market, I am not sure you have considered all of your angles or fully understand your market.

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