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Fixing Toxic Online Behavior in League of Legends

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Re: Fixing Toxic Online Behavior in League of Legends

#11
The problem is that Riot's implementations have completely failed at solving the problem.

By promoting reporting now a lot of the abuse has turned into threatening to report each other. Where before new players would be called shit. Now they are threatened for being bad. There is actually a report option for reporting a new player.. this makes many new players give up because they feel it is against the rules to have no idea what they are doing.

The Tribunal while a nice idea doesn't work. Riot's implementation has a rating system where judges are ranked based on their accuracy. That means many people punish based on what they think other people are doing instead of making their own decision. On each case there is no requirement to spend a specific time looking at it. No requirement to read all the text. I know people who punish every case without reading and run at 90% accuracy on the league table.

Another issue with the tribunal is that it punishes for almost anything. If you say GG after 9 minutes... its punishable. If end the game saying gg easy... its punishable. Combine this with the fact that enemies can report you without specifying a reason means a percentage of players who get punished shouldn't be in the tribunal to begin with. Combine this with terrible support... getting unpunished means going on Reddit and hoping a Riot employee spots it..

At best Riot have shifted the problem from verbal abuse to threatening to report. At worst they have failed completely.

The two main flash points are before you can play ranked games and have a new account. The second one is in champion select...

If you are banned you make a new account. If you want a second account you make a new account. This means the game for new players is incredibly toxic. About 50% of new players are people on smurf's or banned players leveling. This leads to a lot of frustration when you have a 20 death ally on your team. There are a bunch of things they could do.

1. Add a tip pointing out a mute button exists... It took me 80 games of randomly being shit on before someone told me about the mute button. If someone starts to spout abuse I just click the ignore button. Problem sorted.

2. They could give headstart smurf accounts to people who tick an option saying they are experienced players. This would help noobie players play against each other and have a soft intro to the game.

3. They could improve the tutorial so players actually start with some idea of what they are doing.

4. They could make the early climb on new accounts start versus bots to force people to actually get a feel for the game before throwing them into PvP

All 4 solutions would ease the problem new users are facing.

Another issue is in games where 2 or more people want to play the same position while picking champions. A lot of people say 'mid or feed'. They want the mid position. If they don't get it they will repeatedly let the enemy kill them in game...

Simple solutions...

1. Implement a dice in champion select to allow people to roll for the same position.

2. Simply add a line of text when people enter champion select that position is given in order. If you are first pick you have first pick of position. It is up to you if you want to give it up.

There isn't a single tip that says "if you ally is having a hard time in lane, consider aiding them rather than criticizing them."

The attitude of league at the moment is "if you playing bad you are spoiling my game and I will abuse / threaten to report you for it."

When you actually take the effort to communicate with your team and your team actually aids weaker players the mood in games greatly improves. The trouble is that Riot provides little guidance on doing this.

For all their research the implementations based on the research sucks.

Re: Fixing Toxic Online Behavior in League of Legends

#12
post #11

The problem is that Riot's implementations have completely failed at solving the problem. By promoting reporting now a lot of the abuse has turned into threatening to report each other. Where before new players would be called shit. Now they are threatened for being bad. There is actually a report option for reporting a new player.. this makes many new players give up because they feel it is against the rules to have…

There are a couple of points I'd have to disagree with you. - Firstly, I'd bet that several report options, especially the "unskilled player" one, are just placebo that do nothing, and provides the upset player a scapegoat to fire on, without negatively affect anything. A rather nice solution actually.

- There IS a minimum time requirement that you have to spend on each case (90 seconds, I think). People who punishes every case and run 90% accuracy on the league table could mean that, the priori of a player getting to Tribunal being banned is 90%. Which means that the automate system that put up Tribunal cases are doing a great job! Of course there could be other explanation. But I recalled Riots used to have a "pardon day" that they actively asked banned player to post in a thread, so that a human will actively review the cases. I don't think more than a dozen accounts were really edge cases.

- There are an option when you create new account to choose which type of players you are (there were 3 of them: new to MOBA, new to League, experienced, I think). I don't think it helped the smurf situation at all. The type of players that are banned would be more likely to be the type of players that like to "pwn" new players.

- There are a tip that says "Your teammate performs worse if you harass them"

- Adding the dice roll for the game is infeasible, for the reason that the metagame's roles (top, ad, support, mid, and even the jungle in the past) are created by the players, not Riot. Unlike WOW, in which roles (tank, healer, dps) are specifically designed by Blizzard, the roles in League are strongly defined by the metagame at the time. It's not that Riot doesn't design a champion with a specific set of characteristics in mind, it's just that the range of role a champion can do varies quite a bit: in WoW, a dps trying to tank will be killed in half a second. In League, we used to have mainstream range AD mid, tanky mid, caster mid, assassin AD mid, teemo mid etc. There's no way to meaningfully classify "roles" or even "lanes" position properly - who knows if one day we might have 1 - 3 - 1 laning like dota?

Re: Fixing Toxic Online Behavior in League of Legends

#13
This is why I migrated to Dota 2. The general population is more mature, and there are simply less situations in the game which induces rage. What I am talking about?

- The fact that you can pause the game, and wait for someone to reconnect, so you won't lose a game because someone kicked his reset button.

- When someone is AFK the gold is shared amongst the other players.

- You can control the disconnected person's hero.

These and a thousand tiny other little touches makes Dota 2 a better community to be in.

Re: Fixing Toxic Online Behavior in League of Legends

#14

I think the approach that Valve takes to this in DotA 2 is pretty phenomenal. If you get reported you are put into a 'low priority' pool, since the people who play in this pool are generally there for a reason it makes a very effective punishment. If you play a day's worth of games with people who are total assholes you see how much it sucks to be on the receiving end. I'm consistently impressed with how the communit…

I thought the idea was really great as well, on the flipside I love Dota2's ability to "commend" as it makes people try harder to be friendly and lead in order to earn those points positively. (Though in reality I've only gotten those points when I do really well and basically win the game for my team)

Re: Fixing Toxic Online Behavior in League of Legends

#15
post #11

The problem is that Riot's implementations have completely failed at solving the problem. By promoting reporting now a lot of the abuse has turned into threatening to report each other. Where before new players would be called shit. Now they are threatened for being bad. There is actually a report option for reporting a new player.. this makes many new players give up because they feel it is against the rules to have…

I've judged in several tribunals. While there are reporting options like unskilled player, the tribunal makes it very clear that a player cannot be censured for that. It allows complainers to report, but riot never punishes for it.

Re: Fixing Toxic Online Behavior in League of Legends

#16
post #12
post #11

The problem is that Riot's implementations have completely failed at solving the problem. By promoting reporting now a lot of the abuse has turned into threatening to report each other. Where before new players would be called shit. Now they are threatened for being bad. There is actually a report option for reporting a new player.. this makes many new players give up because they feel it is against the rules to have…

There are a couple of points I'd have to disagree with you. - Firstly, I'd bet that several report options, especially the "unskilled player" one, are just placebo that do nothing, and provides the upset player a scapegoat to fire on, without negatively affect anything. A rather nice solution actually. - There IS a minimum time requirement that you have to spend on each case (90 seconds, I think). People who punishes…

From memory, the Unskilled Player report option just tweaked their matchmaking a little.

Re: Fixing Toxic Online Behavior in League of Legends

#17
It looks to me that the answer was to disable chat by default in all games. I like this a lot in console games, for example in Dark Souls summoned players bow to one another (or use other gestures), but for a PC game that's based on team work this is just giving up.

Re: Fixing Toxic Online Behavior in League of Legends

#18
I left League of Legends because they didn't ban someone which I reported 3 times for the same "toxic" behavior. Why pay money if they don't care? I stopped watching the video when they said normal players have their bad days as well. Utterly wrong. Normal players can turn to toxic players when they are confronted constantly by toxic players.

RIOT still doesn't get it and I won't return. Mechwarrior is so much fun and doesn't even need a report system ..

Re: Fixing Toxic Online Behavior in League of Legends

#19

I think the approach that Valve takes to this in DotA 2 is pretty phenomenal. If you get reported you are put into a 'low priority' pool, since the people who play in this pool are generally there for a reason it makes a very effective punishment. If you play a day's worth of games with people who are total assholes you see how much it sucks to be on the receiving end. I'm consistently impressed with how the communit…

Actually, I think it's terrible in it's current state. I made a second account to try some heroes/practice heroes on. Recently they changed the number of reports to four per week, but I almost need to report a person per match for either feeding, afking or really bad language. I realize this is in the 'normal' bracket, which is still pretty terrible.

You might be consistently impressed, lately I have been consistently disappointed by the Dota 2 community.

Re: Fixing Toxic Online Behavior in League of Legends

#20

I think the approach that Valve takes to this in DotA 2 is pretty phenomenal. If you get reported you are put into a 'low priority' pool, since the people who play in this pool are generally there for a reason it makes a very effective punishment. If you play a day's worth of games with people who are total assholes you see how much it sucks to be on the receiving end. I'm consistently impressed with how the communit…

You must be playing a different DotA 2 than me then. To me this is by far the worst community of players I've ever been in, but then I've only played in public games. I really want to like the game, but there are so many players with terrible attitudes that there is a huge change you'll get one of those in your team that will ruin the game. I've reported quite a number of people and it makes no difference whatsoever.
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