Earlier quoted context omitted.
I live in Maine and have 4 kids. We pay $535 a month. The key is setting your deductible high and forgoing co-pays. As long as you have some savings in place (which is easier to do when you pay less) and be smart about visits, it works really well and yet your covered for anything serious.
Having shopped it recently nothing like that can be had in Massachusetts for a family.
Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30
41–50 of 252 posts
Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
25k/3 people is like a welfare amount of money to live on.
He owns and runs a VERY popular blog. He is probably making at least $10k/month from advertisements on the blog alone.
Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30
#43Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30
#44Interesting article, and it would do well for most people to consider increasing wealth through investments. From the article: Our bread-and-butter living expenses are paid for by a single rental house we own, which generates about $25,000 per year after expenses. One nit, perhaps, on that - is the rental house completely managed by someone else? If not, I assume there is at least some minimal amount of work associat…
Lets be fair, I'm 28 y/o, and fairly rich, I love to work, and I live to work, and maybe it's the only thing I may do ever in my life. I could sell all of my bussiness, I could lease the buildings, and retire. But doing nothing is the hardest work I've ever do. I took a sabatic year after I graduated from college, traveled around the world, fucked some really beautiful girls, and after livining a dream-life, my life…
Enjoy your own successes and whatever makes you happy, but don't take the success of others away just because they take joy in different things to yourself.
Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Obviously everyone's health situation differs, but my health insurance experiences have been similar to MMM's. For an 'average' person/family, health insurance shouldn't be breaking the bank (e.g. $200-300 per month). I've heard of some realistic pre-existing health conditions that required $600+/month for specialty meds, but if that $7000+ per year is enough to make the difference in your 'retirement', it wouldn't b…
A modest HMO that covers a family cannot be had for less than $1k/month sticker price. If you don't want co-insurance it's at least $1200. At least in Massachusetts. Family of 3, no pre-existings. Good plans with a $25 co-pay on popular corporate providers (tufts/Harvard pilgrim) are nearly $1500/month, blue cross is close to $1800. Expensive. No way around it.
Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
25k/3 people is like a welfare amount of money to live on.
You would need to know the value of their house to fully judge their situation. If we assume they live in a reasonable house that would cost $1,500 per month to rent / mortgage and we assume they save $750 per month on the costs of working (commuting, baby sitting, eating out) they have an effective income of... $52,000. The median household income in the U.S is $51,000 and that's for households that will often have…
I pay ~600$/month to have a 4 1/2 apartment close to a big-chain supermarket and all necessary amenities. This includes the Hydro bill, the fridge and oven-stove. I have an interior pool. Yes, at that price. Food is about 500$ a month. Internet a further 60$, for a 30/8 Cable pipe.
I'm about 200km from Montreal, close to a university.
Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30
#47There are folks here who have achieved true financial independence by building and selling companies or producing 'lifestyle' businesses that continue to churn out cash without much daily involvement. I find stories of their experiences much more valuable (and educational) than someone who has simply moved the goalposts closer.
[1] Not to mention that doesn't leave a lot of breathing room if you run into an unexpected, expensive emergency situation (e.g. medical expenses).
Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30
#48I am nomadic. I have no dependents, and a severe case of wanderlust. My impression, after many conversations on the matter, is that this is a mild form of insanity. I think that I have my lifestyle more or less sorted out at the moment, but I have in the past been more or less willing to trade stability and an income above the poverty line for the freedom to search for a place that perhaps I want to live. I'm from Alaska originally, and don't particularly enjoy or identify with the rest of the US, so hopefully this is at least somewhat understandable.
I digress. I know exactly the kind of perspective from which $25k per annum is considered wealth. I also know the freedom that comes from not being owned by possessions -- and I hope that MMM does as well. You can still practice accumulation on a budget, but it's hard to see that as a healthy motivation. Being rich is not dying with the most toys. Although I don't believe the majority the HN community would agree with that sentiment.
To be a nomad, you are forced to make a very deliberate choice about every possession. Each one adds a burden that must be carried to each new place -- quite literally carried, in my income bracket. There is the temptation to transform this practicality into a moral virtue, but there are many other reasons besides.
On the other hand, there are many virtues in accumulation. Besides the advantages conveyed by a visible display of wealth, owning many things serves as a buffer against misfortune. Consumer goods provide pleasure, and capital assets can be themselves a source of profit.
I feel like I should be the most fervent disciple of MMM, and yet I would say instead: neglect not your comforts, nor your consumerism. The trades you may make in pursuit of a purer life, are at the least uncomfortable, and at worst dangerous. Poverty may be virtuous, and while you may yet find that virtue, seek it not for its own sake. If your charity compels you to be poor, accept that with good heart, and do not be miserly no matter how much you own. If, alternately, you are not compelled towards sainthood, at the least enjoy your comforts in the knowledge that you are living a blessed life, which may like as not never come again.
Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
You would need to know the value of their house to fully judge their situation. If we assume they live in a reasonable house that would cost $1,500 per month to rent / mortgage and we assume they save $750 per month on the costs of working (commuting, baby sitting, eating out) they have an effective income of... $52,000. The median household income in the U.S is $51,000 and that's for households that will often have…
Why does the value of their home factor into their annual income? You can't pay for healthcare with pieces of your house.
Re: Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30
#50I think the point is being missed here, to some degree. This is not necessarily the best way to live. But it's worth considering: what would you do if you weren't tied to a corporation for 8 hours a day in order to feed and house your family? My immediate instinct is not quite "Let's commute for an hour a day and grind out code for some project I don't really care about." Your life may vary, but while he's at an extr…
But it's also hard to argue with the reality that, if you eschew stupid expenses and live frugally, you can very rapidly build up a very healthy savings. Given that, it's trivially easy to retire by 50 or even 40 for most people; for a software developer (like MMM), it's quite possible to do it by 30.
Honestly, though, I would argue that his plan gives him a sense of false security: no one knows what the economy will look like in ten years, let alone twenty or thirty, and building his retirement on the assumption nothing drastic will change in it or his personal life is folly.
And he spent the first... seven or so years of his working life in some soul-sucking corporation. That's a shit load of time wasted. So his problem?
I'd say it's that he retired too late.
If you take his definition of retirement as "having enough money that you can do what you want to do," all you probably actually have to do is save up 100k-200k, plus or minus a bit. That's because most people want to have some integration into the economy; they just want it on their terms. And integration into the economy means you're getting paid some amount. Given a fluid nest egg to last you a frugal decade or so really gives you all the financial security you need. (Of course, shit can happen, but any shit that can burn through that kind of nest egg is likely to ruin whatever plans you have anyways.)
If you have $200k saved up at this point and no real commitments but have grand plans for how you'll retire sometime in the next five to ten years and then do what you really want to do--teaching, or open source projects that interest you, or traveling around the world as a photographer/blogger--more likely than not you can do it now, within a year. You should. Money will come to you, and there's no reason to put off your dreams.