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GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

adainitiative.org

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Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#61

Post by marquis »

archon wrote: post #51
steveklabnik wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it difficult to accept the premise that this is a female-only problem. It doesn't need to be a woman-only problem. It just needs to affect women disproportionately. Scratch that, it doesn't need to be _anything_. Giving free repos to _anyone_ does no harm to anyone who's not getting them, so the only thing this does is help a group of people. Now, you may argue that GitHub should be helping a specific group…

Yeah, I could have worded my objection better. I'm not doubting that the rather brutal nature of OSS is a problem for both men and women. I'm just skeptical that it affects women disproportionately. If you say "getting your code ripped to shreds in public sucks," I'd wholeheartedly agree with you. If you say "getting your code ripped to shreds in public as a woman sucks more," that's where I get skeptical. And if tha…

Here's a good reason: your entire comment is judgmental and assuming. It's not about hearing "hey, good job girl! Have a cookie!" It's about not hearing "your code is badly formatted, didn't you go to CS school?" instead of "that was a good refactor there, but you'll find it easier to read and share if you indent". Women have just grown up in different kind of group dynamics - and while women can be horribly nasty to each other in artificial groups, it's usually not the case when they choose to work together independently.

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#62

Post by byroot »

Voidkom wrote: post #19

For those crying sexism, go take a look at the amount of women in the business, now THAT's what sexism looks like.

Go take a look at the amount of men in the business of midwifing, it's even worse.

Is there anything that prevent a men to work in this field ? I know a guy who did, so I can tell you: Nothing.

If we lack of women in CS it's mostly because women themselves thinks it's not attractive, just like they don't see trucker, or construction worker as attractive jobs. For the same reason teaching, widwifing, etc lack of mens.

IHMO: It's the culture that drive the inbalance in a given field, and the inbalance that create some macho mens, not the other way.

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#63

Post by theorique »

marquis wrote: post #33
caiob wrote: post #30

Why?

From the article: "In working with women in open source, the Ada Initiative found that many women are reluctant to post their code publicly when they are first getting started in open source software. This reluctance has good reasons behind it: fear of being told they are bad programmers, fear of being publicly mocked or harassed, and even fear of losing job opportunities. All of these are greater risks for women on…

Unfortunately, private repositories are too expensive for most women just getting started in open source software.

If $7-12 / month (github's two lowest cost paid plans) is 'too expensive' for a person getting started in open source software, that person might want to rethink how interested and/or committed they actually are.

It's fine if Ada / github want to give female programmers a leg up to accomplish some social goal. But don't pretend it's due to some insurmountable financial cost.

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#64

Post by biot »

Voidkom wrote: post #19

For those crying sexism, go take a look at the amount of women in the business, now THAT's what sexism looks like.

Similar to how companies used to advertise job openings seeking a "girl Friday" for secretarial work. It sure was tough cracking the sexist, women-dominated secretary industry.

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#66

Post by theorique »

anoncow wrote: post #29

How do female programmers differ from male programmers? I find this offensive. There are better ways to help promote programming among women. Equal salaries for starters could be a real equaliser.

What are the data about salary balance between male and female programmers doing the same job / same team? I wonder if anyone has any research, data, or links.

(And please no one post that tired old $0.73 number that is averaged over all jobs, all roles, all hours-per-week!)

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#67

Post by jacalata »

jcoder wrote: post #53
TomaszZielinski wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean you would support them as much if they supported white males with blond hair ?

Annnnnnd we've gone full Godwin in less than an hour! Nice work, HN. Hit the showers.

showers? in context...really? :)

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#68

Post by SoftwareMaven »

archon wrote: post #5

> This reluctance has good reasons behind it: fear of being told they are bad programmers, fear of being publicly mocked or harassed, and even fear of losing job opportunities. All of these are greater risks for women on average than men. [Citation needed] Edit, to expand on the kneejerk reaction: I find it difficult to accept the premise that this is a female-only problem. I've been reluctant to post my code before…

I had the same initial reaction (and came to post something similar), but I think I was wrong. It's not that it doesn't happen to men, because it absolutely does, but I think that men, in general, won't understand the emotional impact being give "I'm just being honest in the most prickish way possible" advice might have on a woman.

This is not to imply that they are dainty creatures that must be protected, but rather that the way they learn and the influence of that environment is very much different than it is for men.

I applaud github for taking this step, but I would applaud them more for giving it to everybody. Then it isn't about whether a woman needs a "safe place", but whether somebody new to programming needs a safe place. And that would be better for everybody.

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#69

Post by Pewpewarrows »

raganwald wrote: post #57
Pewpewarrows wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between HN believing that businesses should legally be allowed to do all of the above, and HN believing that it's socially / morally wrong to do any of the above. (Note that this is merely a reply to your comment in a vacuum, and shouldn't be construed as me supporting either "side" in this thread.)

My statement isn't actually supporting either side of this thread either, just pointing out that their behaviour seems quite consistent with the things HN has vocally defended with all the zeal of a college freshman who has just discovered "Atlas Shrugged."

And again, there's the belief that someone should have the legal right to perform an action, regardless of whether or not that action is reprehensible.

Ex: You should have the legal right to believe that all green-skinned humans are inferior to blue-skinned humans. But that belief makes you a jerk and I will judge you for it.

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#70

Post by marquis »

theorique wrote: post #63
marquis wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: "In working with women in open source, the Ada Initiative found that many women are reluctant to post their code publicly when they are first getting started in open source software. This reluctance has good reasons behind it: fear of being told they are bad programmers, fear of being publicly mocked or harassed, and even fear of losing job opportunities. All of these are greater risks for women on…

Unfortunately, private repositories are too expensive for most women just getting started in open source software. If $7-12 / month (github's two lowest cost paid plans) is 'too expensive' for a person getting started in open source software, that person might want to rethink how interested and/or committed they actually are. It's fine if Ada / github want to give female programmers a leg up to accomplish some social…

I didn't write the article, but I agree with the premise. Women earn less, have children who come first. If you have small kids at home the best possible job is programming but you don't have a credit card or saving up for the winter power bill comes first.
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