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Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

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Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#71

Post by kalleboo »

oleganza wrote: post #15
oleganza wrote: post #7

Some quotes from the article: "The market is unregulated, meaning that you can set any price for your services." "You can safely say that there’s healthy competition on the market." "You do need a permit to have a taxi service." "The fact is that Uber are asking for an exemption to be able to compete on unfair grounds" Notice some contradictions here? Author claims that market is unregulated and competition is fair,…

I don't know about Stockholm, but in US and France taxi drivers must buy a taxi license for many thousands of dollars/euros that effectively allows them be a part of a monopoly. The price for the license is market-defined because there is a limited number of licenses and few restrictions on trading them. But the interesting point is that licenses were initially created many years ago by some taxi mafia and lobbied to…

> I don't know about Stockholm, but in US and France taxi drivers must buy a taxi license for many thousands of dollars/euros that effectively allows them be a part of a monopoly

In Sweden there is no such thing, that's why the post says it's deregulated. All you need as a driver is a special driver's license (~$150) and what you need as a taxi business owner is proof of financial stability ($15K in the bank).

The Swedish taxi market is already extremely liberal in comparison to most places.

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#72

Post by carlob »

oleganza wrote: post #15
oleganza wrote: post #7

Some quotes from the article: "The market is unregulated, meaning that you can set any price for your services." "You can safely say that there’s healthy competition on the market." "You do need a permit to have a taxi service." "The fact is that Uber are asking for an exemption to be able to compete on unfair grounds" Notice some contradictions here? Author claims that market is unregulated and competition is fair,…

I don't know about Stockholm, but in US and France taxi drivers must buy a taxi license for many thousands of dollars/euros that effectively allows them be a part of a monopoly. The price for the license is market-defined because there is a limited number of licenses and few restrictions on trading them. But the interesting point is that licenses were initially created many years ago by some taxi mafia and lobbied to…

I wouldn't use it over a normal taxi even if it were much cheaper. Other than the safety issues that sibling poster points out, there is a small but non-zero chance that my driver gets pulled over by a cop, that then discovers he's doing something illegal and I miss my plane.

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#73

Post by masklinn »

netcan wrote: post #46

Taxis tend to be locally regulated. Regulations are good and bad. In some places, they ended up with plainly stupid rules. In some places the are about protecting drivers' revenues. But, they also protect consumers. IE, some of these regulations are not net bad, even if they are inconvenient or have some bad side effects. Even good regulation creates inflexibility. It's just a cost. It takes into account the way thin…

> But they are also [...] an innovative [company].

Not really, at least not as far as Stockholm is concerned. Unless by "innovative" you mean that they innovate in their ignorance and refusal to comply with regulations not matter how sensible those are (or, according to TFAA, how people attempt to help them: it was noted they could get their application certified as a meter and people have come forward to help with that, it would seem uber didn't even try doing that).

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#74

Post by Nursie »

snitko wrote: post #65
Nursie wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the average person know if the cab they're getting into is in good mechanical order? What you propose results in a race to the bottom, where cars and drivers are dangerous but deceptive about it. You create incentives to lie.

How does an average person knows which restaurant to go, which shoes to buy, which ISP to connect to internet through, which car to buy, which computer to use and which city to live in?

Well, here in the UK, if they want to know about food safety then the star rating from the government mandated hygiene check is posted on the door to the premises, letting the consumer know the cleanliness of the kitchen and the safety of food preparation practices.

This, like car safety ratings, is something rather hard to judge by a cursory look around the place. We also consider these two things important enough for regulation as they can result in illness, injury or death.

Shoes, well, if your shoes fall apart very quickly then you have a statutory right to a refund, rather than a libertarian 'right' to bitch about it and hope to damage the business. Other things are regulated similarly.

It's not a question of someone choosing for you, it's a question of society coming up with standards and regulations to take the danger of unscrupulous or negligent merchants out of the picture.

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#75

Post by smacktoward »

snitko wrote: post #54
mjn wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "free market" doesn't work in the idealized way you think it does, and does not react in a way that solves such problems. The Scandinavian social-democratic model, by contrast, does work. Very few Scandinavians want to trade it in for the US model, and certainly not some kind of Tea-Party-sounding paranoia about Big Government like this press release oozes.

People always say the chant "free market doesn't work" without giving any explanation or examples. Moreover, any example should be carefully dissected and analyzed, which rarely happens. Even if people come up with examples, it's usually followed by "and this is why free market doesn't work".

"People always say the chant 'free market doesn't work' without giving any explanation or examples"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_failure

You're welcome.

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#76

Post by mindjiver »

_delirium wrote: post #39
andrewcooke wrote: post #2

this approach has worked well for uber in the usa. wonder if they've made a mistake by assuming that anti-govt sentiment in other countries is similar? or by simply copying the technique without thinking? but this is from a single english-language post. what is the rest of the local reaction like? [ah, see reply below - i missed "response was huge" (in the sense of support for uber)]

I suspect the angle of an Ayn-Rand-quoting American who sees himself as Galt won't play quite as well in Sweden, either...

There are strong libertarian strands in several swedish parties so there are some comrades in arms. Quoting Ayn Rand in parliament has happened.

But even as a libertarian leaning swede I find myself quite annoyed by Uber. In the 1990s, IIRC, the taxi market was striktly regulated and finding taxis where a problem. Now in Stockholm there are many, many taxis all over the place so I personally don't get what problem Uber is really trying to solve here.

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#77

Post by kalleboo »

oleganza wrote: post #7

Some quotes from the article: "The market is unregulated, meaning that you can set any price for your services." "You can safely say that there’s healthy competition on the market." "You do need a permit to have a taxi service." "The fact is that Uber are asking for an exemption to be able to compete on unfair grounds" Notice some contradictions here? Author claims that market is unregulated and competition is fair,…

"Unregulated" in the terms of a taxi market means that there are no price regulations and no limitations on the number of cars.

The licenses needed are minimal compared to any other taxi market:

* Driver's need a more stringent driver's license ($150)

* Business owners need to prove they're running a serious business by passing a test and showing proof of enough capital to run the business. This application required an administrative fee of under $500. This is absolutely nothing compared to the 10's or 100's of thousands of dollars needed in other countries (where it's often impossible since their numbers are limited).

These requirements stem from the dangers of unprofessional drivers - unregulated taxi drivers in Sweden have been linked to robberies and rape of passengers. It doesn't in any way create a taxi monopoly. My mom could start a taxi business in Sweden.

The regulation is mainly pure consumer protection. The same kind of regulation that covers supermarkets: approved measurement devices (approved taximeter, same requirement as approved weights), upfront about prices (sticker on the window, same as having proper pricing on your shelves).

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#78

Post by gw »

Nursie wrote: post #19
oleganza wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about Stockholm, but in US and France taxi drivers must buy a taxi license for many thousands of dollars/euros that effectively allows them be a part of a monopoly. The price for the license is market-defined because there is a limited number of licenses and few restrictions on trading them. But the interesting point is that licenses were initially created many years ago by some taxi mafia and lobbied to…

Completely unregulated and unregistered cab services have a history of very bad things happening in them in the UK. Customers do not win, customers get assaulted and raped.

This is a complete fallacy. Any black market, by definition, will have a higher incidence of other criminal activity, because people who are willing to violate one law are often willing to violate others.

This is no different than arguing that we should continue drug prohibition because there are a lot of violent incidents that occur during transactions. That violence exists precisely because the activity was forced underground.

Moreover, even if those services weren't illegal, it nevertheless is true that lower cost services will always bear a higher degree of risk. The same thing applies to practically any business. Being poor sucks, but pricing such people out of entire industries won't help them.

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#79

Post by snitko »

Nursie wrote: post #70
snitko wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, food poisoning happens all the time in the regulated market. People get assaulted all the time by government employees on duty. The libertarian way, however, is not that there should be no regulations. The idea is to 1) make regulations voluntary 2) not give the right to regulate to a monopoly with the exclusive power to use force. You see, if there is a demand for certain things on the market - like safety, fo…

Except it doesn't. The market finds a way to screw the consumer, it has been like that since the dawn of recorded history ("Caveat Emptor!") and we no longer stand for it, sorry.

If anything, it is governments that have, throughout history, a track record of screwing their citizens.

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#80

Post by kalleboo »

RBerenguel wrote: post #51
oleganza wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard from my San Francisco friends that Uber is superior in every way to yellow taxis. And main reason is that it's very easy to rate drivers and you don't pay them directly.

The thing here is that you are comparing US taxis to taxis everywhere. Not everywhere taxis are crap and prices are huge. You developed a Mac App, so you paid the required fees to Apple (Developer license, 30% cut, passing through the sandbox hoops, etc.) What would you think if another developer could do exactly the same as you, without need for sandboxing, developer license and getting 100% of the money? Don't you…

> if I spoke Swedish and knew Stockholm well enough

With some of the drivers I've had, you don't even need those two. Not that it's actually a problem, everyone speaks english and they all have GPS devices.

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