Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#11

Post by claudius » Fri, Apr 26, 2013, 10:50 AM UTC

oleganza wrote: post #7

Some quotes from the article: "The market is unregulated, meaning that you can set any price for your services." "You can safely say that there’s healthy competition on the market." "You do need a permit to have a taxi service." "The fact is that Uber are asking for an exemption to be able to compete on unfair grounds" Notice some contradictions here? Author claims that market is unregulated and competition is fair,…

The market is unregulated in that each driver is free to set their price, as compared to other places where there is a fixed, state-mandated price per kilometer.

The fact that you need a permit does not constitute regulation in any sensible sense (unless you call everything regulation), since you need a permit for basically everything.

The fact that you need a certified taximeter is customer protection – given that Uber charges per kilometer and time unit, I don’t see why they oppose a certified taximeter.

Similarly, you cannot make a nice private business selling X, because you have to pay income tax and VAT.

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#12

Post by ubersync » Fri, Apr 26, 2013, 10:50 AM UTC

derefr wrote: post #3

I find it odd that Uber is constantly fighting various countries' laws to be considered "a taxi service, but not a taxi service", when they could just change their business model a tiny bit and fall straight into the middle of the "limousine service" classification. Why not charge just-time instead of time+distance? Would it screw over the drivers?

Exactly, they have to obey the law of the land. If the limousines in Sweden are supposed to charge by time, then do that. Change your app to charge by time in that particular country.

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#13

Post by Retric » Fri, Apr 26, 2013, 10:50 AM UTC

oleganza wrote: post #7

Some quotes from the article: "The market is unregulated, meaning that you can set any price for your services." "You can safely say that there’s healthy competition on the market." "You do need a permit to have a taxi service." "The fact is that Uber are asking for an exemption to be able to compete on unfair grounds" Notice some contradictions here? Author claims that market is unregulated and competition is fair,…

Fair says nothing about reasonable just applying the same rules to everyone. Forcing a school bake sale to collect sales taxes is "Fair" because it's the same rules a bakery operates under.

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#14

Post by Nursie » Fri, Apr 26, 2013, 10:51 AM UTC

So what exactly is their model?

I found it hard to figure out from their website how they differ from any other taxi service with online ordering and payment.

Also, if there are rules in Sweden about meters and price displays, there's probably a consumer-focussed reason for them.

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#15

Post by oleganza » Fri, Apr 26, 2013, 10:53 AM UTC

oleganza wrote: post #7

Some quotes from the article: "The market is unregulated, meaning that you can set any price for your services." "You can safely say that there’s healthy competition on the market." "You do need a permit to have a taxi service." "The fact is that Uber are asking for an exemption to be able to compete on unfair grounds" Notice some contradictions here? Author claims that market is unregulated and competition is fair,…

I don't know about Stockholm, but in US and France taxi drivers must buy a taxi license for many thousands of dollars/euros that effectively allows them be a part of a monopoly. The price for the license is market-defined because there is a limited number of licenses and few restrictions on trading them. But the interesting point is that licenses were initially created many years ago by some taxi mafia and lobbied to be enforced by police.

Now, put aside "fairness" issues, just imagine if someone comes up with Uber or similar service to work around these licensing requirements. And at the same time provides superior service. They will be able to ask lower prices, which will endanger every taxi driver who's invested already to be a part of a monopoly.

Now imagine that something like Uber moves to bitcoins and become almost anonymous. You won't be able to shutdown the central organisation - it's outside the country and has no bank account. You'll have to fight with individual "illegal" taxi drivers that use the system. But how would you prove that they get paid? There are no credit cards or cash. The person who gets in the car only tells the driver a short pin code to authenticate himself. Or says nothing at all. The driver just gives a friendly lift.

Suddenly no one needs taxis and every taxi driver has lost tens of thousands of dollars invested in his license and can do nothing about it. Customers win, other drivers win, mafia loses. Is it fair? Is in unfair? If you cannot avoid this outcome, does it really matter?

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#16

Post by Retric » Fri, Apr 26, 2013, 10:53 AM UTC

zalew wrote: post #9

I don't understand it. Why the constant drama around their every (lack of) license? Can't they just obtain ones just like the rest of driver services or do the authorities owe them something?

Livences often cost a lot of money. Enough that buying one can easily make there model unprofitable in many areas.

Ex: In NYC there worth 750,000+ USD at 4% thasts 30,000 dollars plus added per taxi every year.

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#17

Post by kmfrk » Fri, Apr 26, 2013, 10:54 AM UTC

derefr wrote: post #3

I find it odd that Uber is constantly fighting various countries' laws to be considered "a taxi service, but not a taxi service", when they could just change their business model a tiny bit and fall straight into the middle of the "limousine service" classification. Why not charge just-time instead of time+distance? Would it screw over the drivers?

Maybe they saw the manufactured outrage as a good PR opportunity.

That only lasts so long, until people get tired of it and start looking into the details, of course.

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#18

Post by Confusion » Fri, Apr 26, 2013, 10:54 AM UTC

oleganza wrote: post #7

Some quotes from the article: "The market is unregulated, meaning that you can set any price for your services." "You can safely say that there’s healthy competition on the market." "You do need a permit to have a taxi service." "The fact is that Uber are asking for an exemption to be able to compete on unfair grounds" Notice some contradictions here? Author claims that market is unregulated and competition is fair,…

  Notice some contradictions here?

Only ones that are only visible to hardcore libertarians.

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#19

Post by Nursie » Fri, Apr 26, 2013, 10:56 AM UTC

oleganza wrote: post #15

oleganza wrote: post #7

Some quotes from the article: "The market is unregulated, meaning that you can set any price for your services." "You can safely say that there’s healthy competition on the market." "You do need a permit to have a taxi service." "The fact is that Uber are asking for an exemption to be able to compete on unfair grounds" Notice some contradictions here? Author claims that market is unregulated and competition is fair,…

I don't know about Stockholm, but in US and France taxi drivers must buy a taxi license for many thousands of dollars/euros that effectively allows them be a part of a monopoly. The price for the license is market-defined because there is a limited number of licenses and few restrictions on trading them. But the interesting point is that licenses were initially created many years ago by some taxi mafia and lobbied to…

Completely unregulated and unregistered cab services have a history of very bad things happening in them in the UK.

Customers do not win, customers get assaulted and raped.

Re: Uber Stockholm throw a PR-tantrum when refused unfair advantages

#20

Post by srisa » Fri, Apr 26, 2013, 10:56 AM UTC

oleganza wrote: post #7

Some quotes from the article: "The market is unregulated, meaning that you can set any price for your services." "You can safely say that there’s healthy competition on the market." "You do need a permit to have a taxi service." "The fact is that Uber are asking for an exemption to be able to compete on unfair grounds" Notice some contradictions here? Author claims that market is unregulated and competition is fair,…

"Regulation and legal requirements" are for running the taxi service. "Market is unregulated" is for the fares that can be charged by a taxi service.

If "existing regulations and licensing" are unfair, better rope in every one and ask for changing those regulations; asking for exemption from the rules that everyone else has to comply with is not fair either.