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Being Really, Really, Ridiculously Good Looking

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Re: Being Really, Really, Ridiculously Good Looking

#121

Post by lutusp »

vacri wrote: post #117
RivieraKid wrote: post #59

"America has no law preventing companies from using attractiveness as a hiring criteria, regardless of whether the job is exotic dancer, salesman, or software engineer. It’s pretty much okay from a legal standpoint to discriminate based on looks in America." This law wouldn't make much sense. We could as well make a law preventing companies from using intelligence as hiring criteria. Imagine a boring job in a factory…

A guy I knew did too well on his aptitude test to become a tram driver here in Melbourne. The problem as seen by the recruiters is that in being too bright, he's likely to get bored sooner and leave. Sure, he himself might absolutely love the job and stay for decades, but the recruiters are playing the numbers game here - tram drivers are not a keystone position - and they find that there's more churn with really bri…

That's a good point, and it's often quoted to explain the fact that Ph.D. graduates often make less money (or have higher unemployment rates) than professional degree holders in the same field. The assumption is that the Ph.D. holder will jump ship at the first offer of a job at his educational level, so he's less reliable as a long term employee.

Re: Being Really, Really, Ridiculously Good Looking

#122

Post by ChrisNorstrom »

pshin45 wrote: post #89
ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #16

Evolution wise, this is because people like in others, what they wish they had for themselves. Likewise, people hate in others what they dislike about themselves. We celebrate the beautiful because we wish we too could be beautiful. We mock the ugly/short/gay/fat/skinny/weak because those are qualities that we ourselves do not wish to have. If all of society punishes those with these traits, people with these traits…

Thanks for sharing your story both here and in your website, and I agree with much of what you say, particularly your 3 points. As the article points out, judging people based on beauty is deeply ingrained in human nature, but I think we can all agree that it's a bad part of our human nature. It's also in our human nature to want to rape, steal, murder, etc. to get what we want, but we create laws and social structur…

Hmmm, I think that's an extreme opinion. I don't blame anyone for wanting beauty, it's gorgeous. Nor do I oppose evolution or natural selection. If the unhealthy and unattractive are not preffered, that's just nature. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to enjoy our time on this planet. I just wish people weren't so harsh. Same with gays, people may not accept them or want to be like them but they should still be treated equally.

It's funny how I'm getting emails from other fellow uglers who understand "the way things are". Yet there are others who just refuse to believe that being ugly has such an impact on one's life. It's kind of like being black on a white continent, or a woman in a man's world, or a homosexual in a heterosexual world, you won't understand the issues or struggles unless you yourself can experience them.

Your looks impact your whole life. Starting with middle school onward to collage and into your adult life. Ugly usually becomes your identity.

Re: Being Really, Really, Ridiculously Good Looking

#123

Post by threedaymonk »

mynewwork wrote: post #46
ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #16

Evolution wise, this is because people like in others, what they wish they had for themselves. Likewise, people hate in others what they dislike about themselves. We celebrate the beautiful because we wish we too could be beautiful. We mock the ugly/short/gay/fat/skinny/weak because those are qualities that we ourselves do not wish to have. If all of society punishes those with these traits, people with these traits…

Another aspect of the absurdity of how negatively we treat plastic surgery is how common and acceptable cosmetic braces are in America. The vast majority of teens getting braces isn't because they medically needed them, it's just to make their teeth more attractive.

I had - chose to have - braces in adulthood, and I was very, very aware of the fact that it was in essence a cosmetic surgery. It certainly made me less judgemental about other cosmetic procedures.

Re: Being Really, Really, Ridiculously Good Looking

#124

Post by acconrad »

ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #16

Evolution wise, this is because people like in others, what they wish they had for themselves. Likewise, people hate in others what they dislike about themselves. We celebrate the beautiful because we wish we too could be beautiful. We mock the ugly/short/gay/fat/skinny/weak because those are qualities that we ourselves do not wish to have. If all of society punishes those with these traits, people with these traits…

First of all you're feeding into your confirmation bias just like the article points out - if you think you're ugly, you're going to believe you're ugly and feed into that negative self image.

Second of all, and most importantly, there is much that can be done with regards to improving appearances. If you don't believe me - just search for "models with and without makeup" on Google. The fact is that even the stereotypically "beautiful" people put lots of effort into improving their appearance, and you can too. I mean, just looking at the picture from the article (http://media.tumblr.com/160024ee41f63d0a19636697b1f929fc/tum...), the person looks essentially the same, except 3 major things change throughout the "hot or not" ratings:

- thinning of the face

- hair color / condition

- skin tone / makeup

The 1-3.4 has duller hair, fatter face and almost no evidence of makeup in comparison to the 9-9.5 face. And the 9.5-10 actually looks paler than the 9-9.5 face, but that appears to be from enhanced lighting (model "glow") giving her a more professional look, not to mention obvious evidence of eye makeup from the blue around her eyes (in addition to the blue eye color) which doesn't exist on any of the other faces. So just like you mentioned about putting your best picture on your profile, there are clearly ways to make yourself significantly more attractive:

- Achieve a healthy weight (increased muscle mass, decreased fat)

- Dress in clothes that flatter you (form-fitting, colors that contrast and enhance skin tone)

- Spend a (healthy) amount of time in the sun to create appealing skin tone

- Put time and effort into grooming (healthy hair in a stylish haircut, no unkempt facial hair, clean and trimmed nails, treatment of pimples/blemishes and other assorted skin care)

Yes, it requires effort. Yes, it seems vain and pointless. And yes, deformaties and dramatic asymmetries cannot be masked by effort of appearance. But attraction and appearance are a game of our society and more often than not, attractiveness is something you're more in control of than most people realize; and people are too lazy / stubborn to accept that reality and work on it. Many people can't be bothered to wear quality clothes or hit the gym 3 times a week, and then blame society why they're deemed "ugly." But the fact is most people are pretty "average" in looks but some don't appear that way because they put in effort into their appearance, and it works!

As much as you're trying to convince yourself you're ugly, you're not (seriously), and you are more in control of raising your attractiveness than you claim. You can't tell me that you'd get less/the same amount of attention if you added 20 lbs of muscle to your frame, lost the facial hair and surfer haircut, and wore a well-fitting navy suit and white dress shirt. Effort put in will yield results.

Re: Being Really, Really, Ridiculously Good Looking

#125

Post by argonaut »

acconrad wrote: post #124
ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #16

Evolution wise, this is because people like in others, what they wish they had for themselves. Likewise, people hate in others what they dislike about themselves. We celebrate the beautiful because we wish we too could be beautiful. We mock the ugly/short/gay/fat/skinny/weak because those are qualities that we ourselves do not wish to have. If all of society punishes those with these traits, people with these traits…

First of all you're feeding into your confirmation bias just like the article points out - if you think you're ugly, you're going to believe you're ugly and feed into that negative self image. Second of all, and most importantly, there is much that can be done with regards to improving appearances. If you don't believe me - just search for "models with and without makeup" on Google. The fact is that even the stereoty…

Firstly, the article doesn't talk about confirmation bias. The fact remains that if you think you're pretty, but you're actually ugly, all of the effects that come from being perceived as ugly will still come into play, which the article goes into to great detail about.

Yes, feeling confident about yourself is helpful, but as the article said, "the increased confidence of attractive workers only explained 15% to 20% of the beauty premium."

The fact that women basically have to spend hours dealing with makeup only reinforces the OP's post. I don't see how that's a response to what he said.

If you look at the picture, the overall facial structure plays a great role in the transformation. Thinning of the face is not just about losing weight/fat. There is bone structure at play and there are other bodily tissues at play that you can't just remove with exercise.

Look. Your response seriously comes off as one of those banal "If you think you're ugly you are ugly. It's all about self-confidence. You can improve yourself if only you wore better clothes and better grooming and went to the gym." Etc etc. etc. Completely uninsightful and nothing the parent doesn't already know.

Re: Being Really, Really, Ridiculously Good Looking

#126

Post by argonaut »

pshin45 wrote: post #89
ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #16

Evolution wise, this is because people like in others, what they wish they had for themselves. Likewise, people hate in others what they dislike about themselves. We celebrate the beautiful because we wish we too could be beautiful. We mock the ugly/short/gay/fat/skinny/weak because those are qualities that we ourselves do not wish to have. If all of society punishes those with these traits, people with these traits…

Thanks for sharing your story both here and in your website, and I agree with much of what you say, particularly your 3 points. As the article points out, judging people based on beauty is deeply ingrained in human nature, but I think we can all agree that it's a bad part of our human nature. It's also in our human nature to want to rape, steal, murder, etc. to get what we want, but we create laws and social structur…

That is unlikely to happen, since it is a basic instinct to desire attractive people.

Well, at least until we have the technology to modify one's own psyche.

Re: Being Really, Really, Ridiculously Good Looking

#127

Post by argonaut »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #102
ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #16

Evolution wise, this is because people like in others, what they wish they had for themselves. Likewise, people hate in others what they dislike about themselves. We celebrate the beautiful because we wish we too could be beautiful. We mock the ugly/short/gay/fat/skinny/weak because those are qualities that we ourselves do not wish to have. If all of society punishes those with these traits, people with these traits…

The question to ask is this: How much does beauty correlate with strength, health, intelligence, conscientiousness, honesty etc. If the correlation is high, then maybe judging others on beauty is something that can be justified under time and resource constraints everything else being the same... http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/explainer/2... Here the data were less clear, but several reviews of the…

The article does cover the fact that children who are more attractive are given more attention, and that teachers pay more attention to those children, which may very well explain the effect.

Re: Being Really, Really, Ridiculously Good Looking

#128

Post by edanm »

cousin_it wrote: post #3

Everyone concerned with this problem might be interested in reading Ted Chiang's excellent science fiction story "Liking What You see": http://www.ibooksonline.com/88/Text/liking.html . It examines what would happen if everyone could choose to disable their natural reaction to beauty, and how that relates to morality.

Huge upvote to this. It's a really excellent story. In fact, Ted Chiang's short story collection is some of the best Science Fiction I've read in years. That story specifically is a great one (not the best), and I think of it every time this kind of article crops up.

Re: Being Really, Really, Ridiculously Good Looking

#129

Post by glenra »

chatmasta wrote: post #93
rprospero wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way of incorporating this is with the classic "Never trust a man in a suit" We know that we give extra weight to the arguments of good looking individuals. Guys in suits generally look better than guys in sweatpants. Therefore, if a guy in a suit tells you something, it's not really as good of an idea as you think it is. He's also not as competent or hard working as you think he is. To combat this, you should…

Why are people in Silicon Valley so against suits? I like dressing up. I look damn good in a suit and I want to wear one every day.

Suits tend to be uncomfortable (mainly, they're too hot to wear in the summer, don't fit well if your body size fluctuates), are fragile and easily get damaged or stained or rumpled (eg, you can't casually sit on the grass wearing one) and are expensive and annoying to clean (you can't just toss them in a washer/dryer).

So there's a bimodal equilibrium. If you don't own anything that's dry-clean-only or requires pressing, it is a real pain in the ass to deal with one or two items that are. Whereas I suppose if nearly everything you wear is dry-clean-only, you evolve a very different set of habits such that it doesn't seem like a big deal to take care of a suit.

If you only wear a suit once or twice a year, it's not worth getting it re-tailored to fit you well or getting one perfectly matched for the seasonal weather...so when you DO wear it, you're wearing something that doesn't fit well and is too cold or too hot, which makes you less inclined to wear one often.

Re: Being Really, Really, Ridiculously Good Looking

#130

Post by MDS100 »

argonaut wrote: post #125
acconrad wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all you're feeding into your confirmation bias just like the article points out - if you think you're ugly, you're going to believe you're ugly and feed into that negative self image. Second of all, and most importantly, there is much that can be done with regards to improving appearances. If you don't believe me - just search for "models with and without makeup" on Google. The fact is that even the stereoty…

Firstly, the article doesn't talk about confirmation bias. The fact remains that if you think you're pretty, but you're actually ugly, all of the effects that come from being perceived as ugly will still come into play, which the article goes into to great detail about. Yes, feeling confident about yourself is helpful, but as the article said, "the increased confidence of attractive workers only explained 15% to 20%…

But does he apply it...
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