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Spark Capital will now pay their own legal bills

nabeelhyatt.com

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Re: Spark Capital will now pay their own legal bills

#101
post #2

Impressive move by Spark, who have now put other VCs in the awkward position of explaining why they don't do the same.

As an angel investor, always investing through a syndicate, it's just far easier to have the company pay the bill. But keep in mind that they're paying with the money that the investors give them, and that this is the EXPLICIT deal.

When I lead a syndicate deal, I am the person that works with the investors' lawyer to get the deal done. But I'm never the majority of the round (or even the largest single investor.) But being the person who retained the lawyer for the investor group, I am on the hook for the bill.

I'm happy doing the work of getting the deal papered, but I wouldn't be happy if I had to pay the whole legal bill when I'm only putting in 10-20% of the round's money.

There are two ways to share the expense:

1) I pay the lawyer then go around to the other investors asking them to pay me their piece. Anyone who has ever been saddled with being the payor of the bill for a large group of people at a bar or restaurant knows how this turns out. Some people forget, some people argue that they should pay less, and it's a huge logistical hassle creating nothing but bad feelings. I suppose I could get each investor to sign something saying they would pay me their share, but that's just more legal expense.

2) We up-front tell the company that they are paying the investors' legal bill (last time I did this, the bill was $6k, the cap was $10k: I don't do fancy deals.) The company factors this into their calculation of whether the investment structure is one they want to accept or not.

Number 2 is nothing more than a structural convenience. But without it I wouldn't take on the burden of leading deals: it would be more trouble than it's worth (note that, as lead, I get the exact same economic terms as the rest of the group, so I'm essentially doing free work when I'm leading and the other investors get the benefit.)

So I'm sticking with having the company pay the legal bill. If we're negotiating a deal and this (or any other term) seems unfair, we need to sit down and talk about it. Once my money is in your bank account and a couple of your stock certificates are under my mattress we're on the same team. We both have a huge incentive to make sure neither of us feels like we've been taken advantage of.

Re: Spark Capital will now pay their own legal bills

#102
post #99
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US sales tax and VAT are not the same type of tax, main difference is that sales tax is paid only at the retail level (by the consumer) while VAT is paid at every stage: a company would pay VAT to acquire raw materials, retailers VAT to acquire the packaged goods and consumers VAT on the final purchase. As far as I know no US state applies sales tax on legal bills so for US VCs there is no tax issue on this

Regarding VAT, what you write is misleading in that VAT is also reclaimed at every step (or more usually, offset against VAT due). The net effect is pretty much the same as a sales tax, except the tax revenue becomes due proportionally at the step in the chain where the value is added rather than all at once at the retail level.

Indeed. The effect is the same in the end if the sales tax is paid and not avoided (e.g., no receipt). With VAT at least the taxes on the intermediate steps of production will have been paid even if the retailer and consumer are cheating at the final step.

Re: Spark Capital will now pay their own legal bills

#103
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This" (noun): superfluous unoriginal internet meme language. Better way: just use your own words, be authentic. Pretend like you're Steve Jobs, and each word you write is your next product.

I love how you suggest that people should stop behaving the way they are in order to "use your own words, be authentic". How is altering their behaviour in order to satisfy someone on a forum being authentic and using their own words?

1. On the authenticity scale, meme language is at the very bottom. Anything is an improvement.

2. I didn't tell them what to say, only what not to say. Putting words into their mouth might have been inauthentic, but that's not happening here.

3. Just because people are "behaving the way they are", doesn't make it authentic. In case you haven't realized, we live in a world filled with constant sophisticated attempts at mass behavior modification. We are all victims from time to time, and behooves us to at least be introspective and aware of when we are. (not that meme language is a part of that, it's more an accidental artifact of networked humanity, but point generally applies).

4. Using memes is a rhetorical crutch for lazy writing.

Re: Spark Capital will now pay their own legal bills

#104
post #2

Impressive move by Spark, who have now put other VCs in the awkward position of explaining why they don't do the same.

Hi Paul i would prefer to eliminate legal fees entirely by using standard docs and not negotiating them on either side. we have done that many many times and it works great. all you need to do is use a standard template. most law firms have them. this is what i propose on every seed and series A we do. most entrepreneurs take us up on it. and then we don't even use a lawyer on our side. however, there are cases, like…

Hi Fred and Paul! You don't know me. I just wanted to be able to tell people I said hello to you two once :)

Re: Spark Capital will now pay their own legal bills

#105
post #100
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly right, but I prefer the $6 case because it makes it much more obvious what is going on. We should make the truth obvious whenever possible. Hopefully (as pg points out) the next thing to go is the weird way that employee option pools are handled.

The truth is that lawyers are being paid, whether it comes out of your pocket or mine. It's very generous but as a person who has never received a term sheet at all, one way or another I see it as turning another part of the process more opaque. What if I never have to pay another lawyer?

Actually, that's not entirely true. If lawyers bill inappropriate charges, you don't have to pay those charges. Inappropriate charges include excessive hours, administrative tasks, overhead, or other charges you disallow based on your agreement (commonly called Billing Guidelines). Based on data I've worked with (insurance companies, financial services company, real estate firms) those inappropriate charges are anywhere from 5-15% of the total. Usually 5-10%.

The advantage of having the VC pay the legal bills is that they are a bigger fish and can more easily put in place and enforce the legal billing guidelines. Also, as a much more likely repeat customer, the VC will likely get better bills to begin with.

Re: Spark Capital will now pay their own legal bills

#106
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth is that lawyers are being paid, whether it comes out of your pocket or mine. It's very generous but as a person who has never received a term sheet at all, one way or another I see it as turning another part of the process more opaque. What if I never have to pay another lawyer?

Actually, that's not entirely true. If lawyers bill inappropriate charges, you don't have to pay those charges. Inappropriate charges include excessive hours, administrative tasks, overhead, or other charges you disallow based on your agreement (commonly called Billing Guidelines). Based on data I've worked with (insurance companies, financial services company, real estate firms) those inappropriate charges are anywh…

Interesting... sounds like a problem that might apply too outside of the legal profession.

Re: Spark Capital will now pay their own legal bills

#107
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/11/yc-backed-clerky-helps-star...

In my humble opinion this barely scratches the surface. But it is better than not investing, so I hope you and they do well with it. I'm personally interested in projects that flip the incentive structure for people to use lawyers for tasks of all kinds, not just startup-related ones.

All startups start by scratching the surface. Clerky doesn't plan to limit itself to startup deal docs forever.
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