Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail Released • Hacker News Board

Re: Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail Released

#161

Post by pkolaczk » Thu, Apr 25, 2013, 5:21 PM UTC

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #121

Running Ubuntu on a regular Dell laptop that is sometimes docked in a dual-monitor setup has been quite frustrating after versions 10 or 11 or so. I've had issues, repeatedly, with either setting up Unity for dual screen, or getting X to work at all. Going back to plain Gnome served as a partial workaround, until I switched to the new laptop - and then I started having issues initializing the screens after logging in…

The same problem here. If I start it docked with the lid closed, it doesn't get past the Ubuntu splash screen and hangs in some weird state where the only possibility is hard power-off. I have to start it with the lid open, then close it after logging into desktop and then manually setup the second external monitor, because although it detects it, it keeps it "disabled". This entirely sucks in 12.10 I hope 13.04 will be better, but I'm little reluctant to upgrade so early after upgrade to 12.10 broke my system.

Re: Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail Released

#162

Post by 6d0debc071 » Thu, Apr 25, 2013, 5:24 PM UTC

claudius wrote: post #118

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trivial maybe if you're a power user that knows Linux and Gnome's desktop shortcuts by heart and isn't afraid of hacking, but definitely not for the regular user Ubuntu was intended for a long time ago.

Said user should then have a system administrator to set up the system. Really, you either read the manual to learn such things or you get someone to do them, expecting a system as complex as a computer to work out-of-the-box is nonsense.

So, why should I use Linux rather than Windows, which will run all my software? Expecting everything to work perfectly may be nonsense but I have to assume that your average user is going to follow the least effort path.

Re: Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail Released

#163

Post by robertfw » Thu, Apr 25, 2013, 5:27 PM UTC

iso8859-1 wrote: post #147

zikzikzik wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you regularly use the pointing device with both hands?

How would you press Control-Alt-KeyLeft with less than both hands?

it's possible on my laptop keyboard as the alt/ctrl are right next to the arrow keys, but admittedly it's not a particularly natural or comfortable way to do it

Re: Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail Released

#164

Post by pkolaczk » Thu, Apr 25, 2013, 5:27 PM UTC

alirov wrote: post #135

xradionut wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only problem I have is with the Nvidia drivers, especially Optimus/separate video card on my laptop which doesn't work. :( But the stock Intel driver works well enough, just don't want to figure out what sort of CLI cargo cult fixing it will take to get it going.

Have you tried using bumblebee[1]? I use it on my Samsung QX411 which has an NVidia GeForce GT 525M video card along with the onboard Intel. The Intel card is used by default at all times. If you want to run a program using the NVidia card, just prepend 'optirun' to the command. [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bumblebee

For me bumblebee works, but then the DisplayPort is useless. It would be awesome if bumblebee could automatically detect that the laptop is docked and turned on the external graphics to enable proper functioning of DisplayPort. Or even not automatically, but simpler than uninstalling/installing bumblebee (and fixing the mess it did to config files everytime).

Re: Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail Released

#165

Post by takluyver » Thu, Apr 25, 2013, 5:29 PM UTC

TallGuyShort wrote: post #149

takluyver wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have abstraction layers precisely so that you can use things without understanding them. It's not just computers, every day we use all kinds of technology without properly knowing how it works. Of course, sometimes those abstractions are leaky, and we have to change a tire or apply an update. But suggesting that typical users should read up on SSL (and therefore asymmetric cryptography) before they use online bank…

I've personally seen people click through the most alarming-looking certificate errors and start entering their bank login credentials. I've driven in cars with people who had put up with that knocking sound in the engine for months because it wasn't getting any worse. If your mother did any of these things, I would be very worried about her financial and physical safety.

You don't have to know how either works to recognise something is wrong with them. My mother, happily, is quite cautious and would go and find someone who understands the machine better. In the computer case, I'd likely be getting a phone call.

The certificate errors are kind of a design failure. Users are so used to clicking through messages they don't really understand, and this is just one more. Even the most alarming certificate errors are usually innocuous, in my experience - someone forgets to renew a certificate, or fails to get a new one for a domain change. That doesn't mean it's OK to ignore them, but we really need systems that don't cry wolf unless there's a really good chance that there's a wolf.

Re: Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail Released

#166

Post by claudius » Thu, Apr 25, 2013, 5:32 PM UTC

6d0debc071 wrote: post #162

claudius wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Said user should then have a system administrator to set up the system. Really, you either read the manual to learn such things or you get someone to do them, expecting a system as complex as a computer to work out-of-the-box is nonsense.

So, why should I use Linux rather than Windows, which will run all my software? Expecting everything to work perfectly may be nonsense but I have to assume that your average user is going to follow the least effort path.

I never said that you should use Linux or Windows or Mac OS or iOS or whatever else you come up with.

Use the product you feel is best suited to your task. If that is Windows, use Windows.

Edit: That said, you will likely want someone knowledgeable around when setting up Windows or Mac OS X, too, so I don’t really get your point.

Re: Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail Released

#167

Post by ing33k » Thu, Apr 25, 2013, 5:33 PM UTC

dave1010uk wrote: post #57

Warning: according to the known issues in the release log [0]: * Skype won't start (without a fix [1]) * Google Chrome won't install (without a fix [2]) [0] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseNotes [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/skype/+bug/1155327 [2] https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=226002#c...

any knows fixes for spotify ?

Re: Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail Released

#168

Post by orangethirty » Thu, Apr 25, 2013, 5:41 PM UTC

mindstab wrote: post #138

dave1010uk wrote: post #57

Warning: according to the known issues in the release log [0]: * Skype won't start (without a fix [1]) * Google Chrome won't install (without a fix [2]) [0] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseNotes [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/skype/+bug/1155327 [2] https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=226002#c...

"Actually, having a workaround by definition lessens the severity, as if someone wants to still run Skype, they can." I don't think everyone is on the same page about Ubuntu being a consumer distro and not a hacker's only distro... I have definitely noticed a decrease in the stability of Ubuntu releases over the years and it's attitudes like this that seem to be in part responsible for it. EDIT: Oh I kept reading, th…

I once bought a laptop which ran Windows 7. The Wifi did not work due to their drivers being broken.

Re: Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail Released

#169

Post by omegaham » Thu, Apr 25, 2013, 5:53 PM UTC

claudius wrote: post #148

omegaham wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you seem to be saying is that in order to use a personal computer, you should be an expert. I disagree, and I'm glad that most people disagree as well. User-friendliness is important regardless of what system it is, even Linux. Have you noticed that the most successful distributions of Linux are the ones that are most friendly to beginners? This elitism is destructive and serves only to make the "experts" smug a…

> What you seem to be saying is that in order to use a personal computer, you should be an expert. No. What I am saying is that a) using a device is different from administrating it and b) in order to administrate a device you have to be an expert. You don’t expect to buy a car and never ever go to a workshop with it, because, you know, you shouldn’t have to be an expert to service your car. Similarly, expecting to b…

I was specifically using "successful" to mean "number of users." People use what they like, and Ubuntu has gotten a lot more users than, say, Gentoo. Is Ubuntu superior to Gentoo? That's a matter of opinion; I'm sure that there are plenty of applications where people have decided that Gentoo is the perfect fit for what they want to accomplish. But for personal computing needs, people tend to use what is most user-friendly.

I don't mean that it's okay to be completely illiterate in how a computer works, especially if you're using Linux. To take your car example, I don't think that a driver should know how to rebuild his engine. I do expect the driver to know how to change his oil and brake pads and know about scheduled maintenance.

The same is true for computers. A Linux user should know basic bash commands, how to install software, how to research problems, and so on. But he shouldn't be expected to know how to troubleshoot driver problems or know the ins and outs of xorg.conf. That's what Google and the aforementioned benevolent experts writing guides are for.

Re: Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail Released

#170

Post by dkuntz2 » Thu, Apr 25, 2013, 5:59 PM UTC

gizmo686 wrote: post #156

Kurtz79 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't update, then, and use whatever distribution suits you better. It's one the greatest things about Linux, choice. No change/upgrade will ever fit every user. I use Python, Libreoffice (not that these are really dependant of the new release) and I like Unity, can't wait to try it out.

You do not have to change distributions because you do not like the desktop, you can simply install another one.

That's not entirely true with Ubuntu. With most other distros, yeah, you don't need to change everything else to change a DE, but because unity integrates with everything, which means that Gnome and Cinnamon don't work well with ye-standarde Ubuntu.