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Paypal President: We're thinking about adding Bitcoin (2:50) [video]

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Re: Paypal President: We're thinking about adding Bitcoin (2:50) [video]

#61

Post by mseebach »

vlasta2 wrote: post #48
ok_craig wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of what keeps regular Joes away from bitcoin is its complexity and the difficulty of keeping your funds secure. If PayPal were to make the most secure, easiest-to-use bitcoin wallet, they could profit greatly from it and also provide something that doesn't really exist anywhere yet. All PayPal does right now is help you get dollars from point A to point B, and in the process they take a cut. They could do the s…

I am sorry I cannot agree with you. You cannot collect profits from a transaction between 2 Bitcoin users like PayPal does right now with "real" money. If the world adopted Bitcoin, it would be the end of PayPal's business model. If PayPal were ready to replace their business model with something way less profitable, but more future-proof, it would still make no sense for them to adopt bitcoin. It would only make sen…

It's like oil companies investing in green tech. If that's where you think the world is headed, it's better to get on the train and be a player than to get left behind.

For PayPal and BTC - even in the best scenario for BitCion, there's going to be a very long transition period, and PayPal has a very good position to profit from being an intermediate in that period. And once all centralised currencies are gone, true, PayPal's current business model is irrelevant, but by then, they'll have world-class expertise on BitCoin and can probably keep in the game as wallet operators or makers of hardware for casual transactions or whatever.

Re: Paypal President: We're thinking about adding Bitcoin (2:50) [video]

#62

Post by _ikke_ »

BadCRC wrote: post #31
mckoss wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 8 years (by 2021) 90% of Bitcoins will have been issued. Strictly speaking, the supply is inflating continuously, though it is unlikely to ever be growing faster than future demand (we seem to have past that point within the last year). The only reason economists would call Bitcoin deflationary is the presumption of constantly growing demand.

> Strictly speaking, the supply is inflating continuously what about Bitcoins being lost? perhaps we should also consider coins that are not used in the past five years also "lost".

Even if you mark them 'lost', you can't just trivially reassign them. You would need to have the private key to be able to spend them, there is no other way.

Re: Paypal President: We're thinking about adding Bitcoin (2:50) [video]

#63

Post by Drakim »

khet wrote: post #54

If Bitcoin does succeed, I don't see a regular person wanting to manage his own wallet and security let alone understand all the complexity that is bitcoin. I see Bitcoin becoming the underlying infrastructure on which companies like Paypal, Square, Banks and other financial institutions trade. If Paypal does invest in adding Bitcoin, it would be right step ahead for Bitcoin and for Paypal.

The real win is that if it becomes the underlying infrastructure, it is still possible for the common man to have a "manual wallet".

You won't end up in walled garden situations where a single vendor controls with massive fees and restrictions, but you have no choice but to use them, because hey, that's all everybody accepts and uses.

If an online wallet service/paypal/visa is gonna keep your business, they have to make what they offer be worth their fees.

Re: Paypal President: We're thinking about adding Bitcoin (2:50) [video]

#64

Post by draugadrotten »

rsofaer wrote: post #60
javert wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The built-in deflation is a fatal flaw Yeah, I mean, gold didn't work as a currency all those hundreds of years. /sarcasm

The amount of gold in circulation has never stopped increasing.

Nothing prevents you from creating a "bitcoin-B", "bitcoin-C" and so on. There will be enough bitcoins for everybody.

Disclaimer: I believe bitcoins are tulip bulbs.

Re: Paypal President: We're thinking about adding Bitcoin (2:50) [video]

#65

Post by mtgx »

khet wrote: post #54

If Bitcoin does succeed, I don't see a regular person wanting to manage his own wallet and security let alone understand all the complexity that is bitcoin. I see Bitcoin becoming the underlying infrastructure on which companies like Paypal, Square, Banks and other financial institutions trade. If Paypal does invest in adding Bitcoin, it would be right step ahead for Bitcoin and for Paypal.

Wallets are never going to be mainstream the way they work right now, so for most people, online wallets are the way to go - at least until hardware wallets are a common thing, like say in the form of a ring. If that ever catches up, I think it will be the way to go for people who want to have personal wallets.

Re: Paypal President: We're thinking about adding Bitcoin (2:50) [video]

#66

Post by clueless123 »

vlasta2 wrote: post #58
ok_craig wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason PayPal has to build a vanilla bitcoin wallet interface. It's true that you cannot simply deduct a certain percentage from a direct bitcoin transaction. However, they could pool your coins in their own controlled address, and when you choose to send a payment through them, it makes one transaction on your behalf for that amount, and also a second transaction for 1% to their revenue address. Average J…

One of the advantages of bitcoin is that you do not need a middle man to do a transaction. Some people may choose one for whatever reason, but would they be OK with paying the transaction fees? Would you use a credit card if you had to pay 4% more than if you paid in cash? I do not think many people would be OK with that. It may sound as if I am a PayPal lover and bitcoin hater, which is NOT the case. I just do not s…

You write: "Would you use a credit card if you had to pay 4% more than if you paid in cash? "

That is exactly what happens today on the real world. If you make it convinient for me to use your "credit card", I will use it, and because of that, vendors pay the 4% fee. All paypal needs to do is to make it easy (at non bitcoin vendors for example) for me to spend my bitcoins and I will use it. Vendors will fall in line because they want my business.

The above said.. IMHO, there is no way in hell that "the man" will allow bitcoin in its current form to prosper (at least not without a heck of a fight), as to much visibility & control would be lost.

Re: Paypal President: We're thinking about adding Bitcoin (2:50) [video]

#67

Post by lolcraft »

mckoss wrote: post #24
lingben wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

inflation? I think he means DEflation

In 8 years (by 2021) 90% of Bitcoins will have been issued. Strictly speaking, the supply is inflating continuously, though it is unlikely to ever be growing faster than future demand (we seem to have past that point within the last year). The only reason economists would call Bitcoin deflationary is the presumption of constantly growing demand.

Eh, not really. Economists would call a currency deflationary if it causes deflation, that is, if it inflates slower than demand does. Bitcoin is massively deflationary, and only inflating in a very pedantic sense.

I think assuming that Bitcoin will be (for practical purposes) eternally deflationary is the safest bet that could be made today. The world economy has been growing by triple digits every century. Not even now we're nowhere near a global Star Trek post-scarcity future. So it's misleading to say that Bitcoin is deflationary "based only on a presumption". Somewhat like saying that physics is just "based on the presumption of Newton's laws".

Re: Paypal President: We're thinking about adding Bitcoin (2:50) [video]

#68

Post by codeulike »

rsofaer wrote: post #60
javert wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The built-in deflation is a fatal flaw Yeah, I mean, gold didn't work as a currency all those hundreds of years. /sarcasm

The amount of gold in circulation has never stopped increasing.

If the bitcoin protocols changed to allow divisions to 9 decimal places instead of 8, would that be viewed as an increase in the money supply, or no change, in traditional economics?

Re: Paypal President: We're thinking about adding Bitcoin (2:50) [video]

#69

Post by codeulike »

lolcraft wrote: post #67
mckoss wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 8 years (by 2021) 90% of Bitcoins will have been issued. Strictly speaking, the supply is inflating continuously, though it is unlikely to ever be growing faster than future demand (we seem to have past that point within the last year). The only reason economists would call Bitcoin deflationary is the presumption of constantly growing demand.

Eh, not really. Economists would call a currency deflationary if it causes deflation, that is, if it inflates slower than demand does. Bitcoin is massively deflationary, and only inflating in a very pedantic sense. I think assuming that Bitcoin will be (for practical purposes) eternally deflationary is the safest bet that could be made today. The world economy has been growing by triple digits every century. Not even…

Does the divisibility of bitcoin make any difference? If they changed the protocol now and then so that the number of decimal places (currently 8) increased to 9, then 10, etc, would that be viewed as increasing the supply of bitcoins?

Re: Paypal President: We're thinking about adding Bitcoin (2:50) [video]

#70

Post by baddox »

vlasta2 wrote: post #58
ok_craig wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason PayPal has to build a vanilla bitcoin wallet interface. It's true that you cannot simply deduct a certain percentage from a direct bitcoin transaction. However, they could pool your coins in their own controlled address, and when you choose to send a payment through them, it makes one transaction on your behalf for that amount, and also a second transaction for 1% to their revenue address. Average J…

One of the advantages of bitcoin is that you do not need a middle man to do a transaction. Some people may choose one for whatever reason, but would they be OK with paying the transaction fees? Would you use a credit card if you had to pay 4% more than if you paid in cash? I do not think many people would be OK with that. It may sound as if I am a PayPal lover and bitcoin hater, which is NOT the case. I just do not s…

You don't need a middle man for physical cash (let's use USD as the example), but services like credit cards and debit cards are extremely convenient. Middle men can certainly be of great value to the bitcoin economy, by providing similar services to the ones that already exist on top of government currencies.
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