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Why Should I Care That No One’s Reading Dzhokhar Tsarnaev His Miranda Rights?

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Re: Why Should I Care That No One’s Reading Dzhokhar Tsarnaev His Miranda Rights?

#241

Post by swalkergibson »

eggnet wrote: post #167
alan_cx wrote: post #145

There is literally no point having rights at all if there are exceptions to those rights which can be used but authority when things get difficult or controversial. A right is universal, if there is an exception, its is no longer universal, there for no longer a right. If a right is not universal, it becomes a privilege. The whole point of rights is to protect individuals when things get difficult, when people's emot…

Let's cut to the chase, what if, as in this case, granting an individual their full rights could deprive others of their rights, like the right to not be blown up by another bomb? You are suggesting that rights only have value if there are no exceptions to those rights. I disagree. Rights have value, but there must be a way to assign value to each individual right for each person, otherwise, when you cannot grant eve…

It is not a zero-sum game. Depriving a right from a suspected terrorist does not necessarily guarantee the right of some other, unrelated person. Rights are rights, selectively applying them is the slipperiest of slopes.

Re: Why Should I Care That No One’s Reading Dzhokhar Tsarnaev His Miranda Rights?

#242

Post by jhaglund »

cinquemb wrote: post #221
Tangaroa wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well after consulting with people behind some of tech behind OWS, I doubt something like this would be effective. You could try doing it without calling for a war to kill everybody who disagrees with you, without turning to violence as your first resort, without trying to change the names of public parks that were named after civil rights activists, without raping the women who make the mistake of joining your moveme…

Haha you make it sound as if I was deeply involved with them like a religious zealot of sorts. I was just helping them out with technical things and stating what I saw + heard from their experiences. As I mentioned already I think this type of protest is highly ineffective in country where you can effectively shut down a city with coercive fear mongering. But hey, people are willing to let it become like this so it w…

Your use of TM™ indicates to me that you are arrogant and cynical. You personally can't make the world better (see: dictator) and that really hurts an ego.

You would rather see yourself as a helpless pesant being oppressed than admit you're closer in status to the bourgeoisie.

You sound like my old friend Steve. So let me say this: don't do anything stupid, you will get caught. I think he's out of prision now but I don't talk to him anymore.

Re: Why Should I Care That No One’s Reading Dzhokhar Tsarnaev His Miranda Rights?

#243

Post by mchusma »

What I find interesting here is that my emotional visceral reaction was that I hoped that not readying Miranda would end up materially hurting the case against this guy.

I guess that is because at the end of the day the odds of me being substantively impacted from terrorism is actually low. The odds of me being impacted from degradation of constitutional protections, actually quite high and I would argue I experience quite frequently.

I just found my own emotional reaction interesting, and indicative that winning for the terrorists is solely in how we react.

Re: Why Should I Care That No One’s Reading Dzhokhar Tsarnaev His Miranda Rights?

#244

Post by mchusma »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #77
shabda wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It is in times such as these, it is the most important to remind us of this.

A few reasons: 1) In this particular case, the public safety exception to Miranda has been around since 1984 (cue Orwellian conspiracy theories). So, for almost 30 years (longer than my existence), Americans have been "deprived" of this "liberty". Suddenly it becomes an issue in 2013 for armchair devil's advocates in a pretty much open-shut case of domestic terrorism. Furthermore, the Miranda warning never existed in…

"The quote itself doesn't explain why those who choose to give up liberty for safety deserve neither--in fact, the only thing going for this quote at all was that Ben Franklin said it. Take away the attribution and you're left with an empty sound bite."

Good point. I think of Maslovs hierarchy and decisions rational people take almost every time they are in danger.

Re: Why Should I Care That No One’s Reading Dzhokhar Tsarnaev His Miranda Rights?

#245

Post by cinquemb »

jhaglund wrote: post #242
cinquemb wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha you make it sound as if I was deeply involved with them like a religious zealot of sorts. I was just helping them out with technical things and stating what I saw + heard from their experiences. As I mentioned already I think this type of protest is highly ineffective in country where you can effectively shut down a city with coercive fear mongering. But hey, people are willing to let it become like this so it w…

Your use of TM™ indicates to me that you are arrogant and cynical. You personally can't make the world better (see: dictator) and that really hurts an ego. You would rather see yourself as a helpless pesant being oppressed than admit you're closer in status to the bourgeoisie. You sound like my old friend Steve. So let me say this: don't do anything stupid, you will get caught. I think he's out of prision now but I d…

Dang, I guess everything is out in the open now!

I was really hoping that I could personally make the world a better place by engaging in discussion on HN that would ultimately go on to change the world, and ultimately gain some much needed ego points I could cash in for that Tesla™!

Thank you almighty oracle, you have brought me salvation! :D

P.S. Steve is probably better off without you in his life :P

Re: Why Should I Care That No One’s Reading Dzhokhar Tsarnaev His Miranda Rights?

#246

Post by xefer »

The reading of Miranda rights doesn't in and of itself confer or trigger any new "rights". It's a reminder of the rights he already has. He could simply choose to not say anything without a lawyer being present and there's nothing law enforcement can do about it. People start talking even after being reminded, because I imagine for the most part, by now, those arrested think it's just a bunch of boilerplate that's part of the booking process - that it's almost a TV trope. Once read their rights, the police don't have to wait around for the arrestee to "lawyer up".

Re: Why Should I Care That No One’s Reading Dzhokhar Tsarnaev His Miranda Rights?

#248

Post by niccl »

pfortuny wrote: post #206
newbie12 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't blame Bush, the Obama administration Justice department created the Miranda exception for "operational terrorists". This has nothing to do with enemy combatants; rather, there is the possibility that an active terror suspect on US soil has information about an active threat to public safety, and the police have a right (and duty) to question him about possible threats.

They have the duty to do that, only he has the right not to answer, despite not having been told so. You have to defend even terrorists' rights if you want yours to stand.

I think Jefferson's comment is relevant here: the price of freedom is eternal vigilance It seems that different groups are constantly picking away at your rights (in all sorts of areas). fight (as much as practical) _all_ the small steps, otherwise they might eventually amount to something that directly affects you.

Re: Why Should I Care That No One’s Reading Dzhokhar Tsarnaev His Miranda Rights?

#249

Post by gexla »

Boston doesn't need this guy to give an incriminating statement to put him away for the rest of his life. Just the multiple shootouts with police (which produced a lot of evidence and witnesses) would do the trick.

What the feds are really interested in is the intelligence they can gather in regards to terrorist activity. If this is part of something bigger, the feds need to figure it out.

Re: Why Should I Care That No One’s Reading Dzhokhar Tsarnaev His Miranda Rights?

#250

Post by pekk »

swalkergibson wrote: post #241
eggnet wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's cut to the chase, what if, as in this case, granting an individual their full rights could deprive others of their rights, like the right to not be blown up by another bomb? You are suggesting that rights only have value if there are no exceptions to those rights. I disagree. Rights have value, but there must be a way to assign value to each individual right for each person, otherwise, when you cannot grant eve…

It is not a zero-sum game. Depriving a right from a suspected terrorist does not necessarily guarantee the right of some other, unrelated person. Rights are rights, selectively applying them is the slipperiest of slopes.

There wasn't an assertion that depriving one person's rights necessarily (in all possible cases) guarantees others' rights. The implication was that there are real cases where this is the case.
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