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Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

insidescience.org

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Re: Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

#101
The top comment currently says "This sounds like nonsense to me", its first child agrees and add something like "everybody new it since ages".

Well, for one I like this article. I wonder if we developers could use entropy instead of debt to explain the necessity of refactorings and abstractions.

When you say that there is a lot of technical debt, the boss would assume that it is like financial debt: as long as you are still running forward, you can go to the banks and fix the issue with them. It is reversible.

But technical "debt" is not reversible. One wrong lazy "if customer = John Doe" (instead of a proper configurable flag) paves the way to other wrong ifs, and it becomes very fast an irrecuperable mess. This is more like growing system's entropy: a broken mirror won't reassemble, or spilled water won't come back to the bowl, as the Chinese say (for a lost hymen).

Using entropy instead of debt, provided people understand the concept#, we could by showing that increasing the complexity of a system the wrong way (adding ifs because "no time") is drastically and irreversibly reducing the number of possible futures.

# Obviously the weakness of my point...

Re: Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

#102
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely blown away after watching that video by the sheer range of tasks this AI can accomplish on its own. Learning to walk, balance a stick, using tools, co-operating, playing pong, and...even buying stocks low and selling high! And all of this without being programmed or given a goal to do so. If true this could be a huge breakthrough indeed. Would really like to learn more about the core technology and will be…

Where do you see it learning to walk? You can't equate the inverted pendulum problem with upright walking. It is neat if it can choose it's own reference level ("goal") for a classical control problem -- but that's a long way from "learning to walk".

Granted that their model for upright walking is very basic. But if their basic premise is sound and valid and taking their claims at face value, it could potentially explain how more complex behaviors like walking may emerge from the simpler examples in their demo.

Re: Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

#104

This sounds like nonsense to me. First of all, what exactly do they mean by "intelligent behavior"? I looked in the paper but I couldn't find where they define what they are trying to model. They do however use the vague expression "remarkably sophisticated behaviors associated with the human ‘‘cognitive niche,’’ including tool use and social cooperation." Tool use and social cooperation, sounds interesting. Let's se…

The article is kind of written in gibberish. It also implies that the idea of linking thermodynamics to intelligence is novel when a lot of experts actually see it as a fundamental of thermodynamics and the universe. It's even possible that this physicist is naive about the whole debate an thinks that he discovered this. However while the idea is not new, it does seem like he made a software implementation of some so…

Just so you know, before I started spending all of my time programming I was a physicist, and statistical physics was my best subject.

Anyway, I kind of object to your definition of intelligence as "the ability to predict the unknown". Of course it comes down to personal preference, but I feel that when it comes to making AI, a better definition is something along the lines of "intelligence is the ability to make good choices when faced with a decision". In other words, I like to come at AI using the definition of rational agent[1].

Machine learning is the subject that involves predicting the unknown, and there is a ton of linear algebra involved. I am not an expert at ML, so it's possible that the second law in some form plays a role, but if so I have not come across that yet in my studies.

Now in as much as the second law applies to AI, I am skeptical, but your comment has convinced me to keep an open mind and look into it more carefully. Entropy is merely the log of the probability distribution, so when we talk about maximizing entropy for decision making, what probability distribution should we use, and should we use different distributions for different situations, and if so how do we decide which one to use?

A much more relevant subject for AI in my opinion is game theory, which is really a theory of decision making. Finding the optimal strategy for navigating a decision tree can be a hard problem, and just because maximizing entropy works to find solutions for some types of decision problems, doesn't mean that it's a magic bullet that will always, or even frequently, work out.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_agent

Re: Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

#106

This sounds like nonsense to me. First of all, what exactly do they mean by "intelligent behavior"? I looked in the paper but I couldn't find where they define what they are trying to model. They do however use the vague expression "remarkably sophisticated behaviors associated with the human ‘‘cognitive niche,’’ including tool use and social cooperation." Tool use and social cooperation, sounds interesting. Let's se…

The article is kind of written in gibberish. It also implies that the idea of linking thermodynamics to intelligence is novel when a lot of experts actually see it as a fundamental of thermodynamics and the universe. It's even possible that this physicist is naive about the whole debate an thinks that he discovered this. However while the idea is not new, it does seem like he made a software implementation of some so…

I might add that what made me understand these concepts is the writings of physicist and probability theorist E.T. Jaynes, especially his unpublished manuscripts: http://bayes.wustl.edu/etj/node2.html

I think if he would have been alive at the right time these would have been blog posts. Before reading them, I had taken an intro class in thermodynamics which at left me completely confused.

Read THE EVOLUTION OF CARNOT'S PRINCIPLE ( http://bayes.wustl.edu/etj/articles/ccarnot.pdf ) for incredible insights on how Carnot pioneered thermodynamics by trying to optimize steam engines.

Also if you think you dislike statistics and probabilities but you like math in general his book might change your mind: Probability Theory: The Logic of Science. Free draft: http://omega.albany.edu:8008/JaynesBook.html

Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Probability-Theory-Science-T-Jaynes/dp...

In fact understanding his stance on probabilities, the mind projection fallacy in particular might be prerequisite to understand thermodynamics, the fundamental point being that entropy is not really directly a property of matter but more of a meta property that is about knowledge or information which is taken to mean correlations across aggregate matter.

Re: Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

#108
post #77

After a quick glance, this sounds a lot like information theoretic empowerment, which has been around for more than five years: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjourna... https://uhra.herts.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/2299/6712/1/901919... https://uhra.herts.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/2299/9659/1/ContiP... Also the concept of homeokinesis is quite similar and also not quoted in this work: http://www.infor…

Thanks for posting these. The third link in particular applies a very similar approach to the inverted pendulum example, in depth and with clarity. I also note the modest concluding paragraph for comparison to the grand claims of the OP.

"Finally, we conclude that it would be desirable to transfer some of the generality of the underlying empowerment concept into methods for empowerment calculation in systems combining continuous and discrete dynamics, especially systems of real-world relevance."

Re: Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is kind of written in gibberish. It also implies that the idea of linking thermodynamics to intelligence is novel when a lot of experts actually see it as a fundamental of thermodynamics and the universe. It's even possible that this physicist is naive about the whole debate an thinks that he discovered this. However while the idea is not new, it does seem like he made a software implementation of some so…

Just so you know, before I started spending all of my time programming I was a physicist, and statistical physics was my best subject. Anyway, I kind of object to your definition of intelligence as "the ability to predict the unknown". Of course it comes down to personal preference, but I feel that when it comes to making AI, a better definition is something along the lines of "intelligence is the ability to make goo…

I think your definition of intelligence is good and is simply broader than mine.

I split your definition in two parts and only labelled the first part 'intelligence'. part 1: Predicting the unknown which can be the probabilities of outcome of your actions and such. part 2. Evaluating these outcomes and their likelihoods to make a decision based on some utility or preference function.

I can see contexts where the word 'intelligence' would encompass both parts. In the context of thermodynamics or information theory I think intelligence is more about the prediction part because pure matter or even computers don't really have preference of outcome so the second part is mostly irrelevant to their 'intelligence'.

The original article seems to take low entropy as a stated goal or preference of the system which is not a bad sub goal in that it is thermodynamically efficient and saves usable energy longer but I don't think being thermodynamically efficient should be the only goal of an intelligent system.

Re: Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is kind of written in gibberish. It also implies that the idea of linking thermodynamics to intelligence is novel when a lot of experts actually see it as a fundamental of thermodynamics and the universe. It's even possible that this physicist is naive about the whole debate an thinks that he discovered this. However while the idea is not new, it does seem like he made a software implementation of some so…

Just so you know, before I started spending all of my time programming I was a physicist, and statistical physics was my best subject. Anyway, I kind of object to your definition of intelligence as "the ability to predict the unknown". Of course it comes down to personal preference, but I feel that when it comes to making AI, a better definition is something along the lines of "intelligence is the ability to make goo…

> "I feel that when it comes to making AI, a better definition is something along the lines of "intelligence is the ability to make good choices when faced with a decision"."

What defines a good choice? What defines a bad choice? Saying "A true machine intelligence is one that makes good decisions" is a tautology -- it doesn't define anything. Rather, it just reframes one vague question into another.

Intelligence is notoriously difficult to describe, so don't feel bad about it if you keep thinking of circular definitions. It's a tricky topic.

Also, IMO there's a big problem with rational agents: In order to be actually useful/implementable, they must be defined in a specific logical framework. You can define a rational agent in a vague sense without any specific domain, but doing so does not solve any problems -- it again just results in tautology. But the problem with choosing a logical framework is shown by Godel's famous theorem. Simply put, any such agent in a well-defined domain will be confined to that domain of reasoning. To me, a machine that excels in some area of planning but can never think outside the box, is not intelligent on the same level as humans.

Anyone advocating rational agent AI as true machine intelligence IMO will need to either find a flaw and disprove Godel's incompleteness theorem, or provide some system of logic that encapsulates all human reasoning (absurdly impossible IMO).

On the other hand, I personally think true machine intelligence will be solved much more "organically", far separated from formal logic and more related to fuzzy pattern matching than rigid formal optimization. I really like this definition of intelligence:

http://lesswrong.com/lw/vb/efficient_crossdomain_optimizatio...

Though I wouldn't claim it's the ultimate one, as it's still a bit vague. I think the key lies in what he describes as "cross domain" -- what is colloquially called "thinking outside the box", because this is the only thing humans seem extremely good at that every computer AI to date has failed at.

Humans are capable of transcending formal logical systems and finding new truths that are unprovable from the original formal system. How is this possible? Godel proved that a formal system cannot ever determine this by itself, from axioms, without being inconsistent.

IMO a true machine intelligence will also need to be capable of this formal-system-transcending property (which you can also call "cross domain thinking", or "thinking outside the box", or "creativity", or whatever).

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