Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

startingdotneprogramming.blogspot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 336 posts

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#301

Post by mozboz »

kyllo wrote: post #252
michaelochurch wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now tell me, just how exactly are you even going to combat deeply entrenched mindsets like those, which also happen foster the usual confirmation and survivor bias dreams in most, if not all aspiring "wantapreneurs"? I don't think selling a company is a bad thing. I think building a company with the idea in mind that one must sell (because one's backers will flip out if there isn't a sale) is bad.

It sounds like a lot of what bothers you about VC startups is that they've become a way for megacorps to outsource risky marketing experiments (aka "convex work") and buy the winners while discarding the losers. But through the usual avenues of corruption it's become a rigged game where the sociopaths inside the megacorps are working with their sociopath friends in the VCs and actually picking winners instead of only…

> Is there a such thing as a corruption-repellent, paychopath-kryptonite system, and if so, what is it?

Yes. Make the goal of your organisation a social good, and not making money.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#302

Post by stray »

fudged71 wrote: post #297
stray wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said there wasn't substantial skin in the game? And actually I remember it as 110 hour weeks (though it's possible that I was the slacker of the bunch). Yeah, we had something like 3 months of working 15 to 18 hours per day, 7 days per week. Totally possible. Totally stupid.

Is that legal?!

Is it legal to work long hours?

I guess.

I live in the US, where what is or is not legal plays second fiddle to what is or is not good for shareholders.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#303

Post by ZoFreX »

mentalthrowaway wrote: post #275
eatitraw wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't comment on the whole situation, since I live outside of the USA, but I can give you some advice about Problem #1. There are great books by David Burns: "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy" and "When Panic Attacks". Both are available at amazon kindle: http://amzn.com/0380810336 and http://amzn.com/076792083X The "Feeling Good" book is focused primarily on depression issues and "When Panic Attacs" (as its name…

Thanks for the references; I'll give them a read ASAP. > Also, can you please elaborate on your issue with finding a therapist? Can you just go to a therapy session? Or you can't because you have to overcome strong anxiety first? I've attempted to find a therapist I can communicate well with online (complete failure there -- every service I tried was less than worthless, simply because it didn't give me what I really…

Not all therapy is talk therapy - I thought I needed that, but had similar reservations about how open I could be face to face. When I finally bit the bullet I ended up in most-self-directed CBT, with none of that recounting-childhood-trauma or what have you. It was very pragmatic, more about giving me processes to deal with things, than me telling the psych things and them telling me how to deal with them.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#304

Post by dsuth »

PeterisP wrote: post #218
kevingadd wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you even have any anecdotes to support this? I have literally never encountered an example of an employer proactively managing an employee's stress level. To suggest that an employer can somehow put employees at 'an optimum amount of stress' suggests a lot more understanding of employees than I think is possible in most scenarios. I mean, yeah, we can spout platitudes all we want here. I agree that if you aspire t…

A "workplace" or "employer" can't do that, but a good line manager can, and will. That's why they're valuable - a well managed team is far more productive in the longterm than a team where you just replace the "spent" people with fresh ones.

Of course a workplace can do that - by encouraging a philosophy of work/life balance, and by encouraging their line managers to actively pursue this. Do you think workplaces just let their line managers roam free, with no guidance?

There is a lot of active effort in my field (consultant engineering) to manage the true productivity and quality output of individuals, because managing this irresponsibly introduces an unacceptable level of risk to projects.

That this (apparently) hasn't made great inroads into software development is another indicator of the field's immaturity and lack of liability. Because there are no serious consequences for shipping faulty software (outside of a very few fields such as industrial automation), companies are not required to care about things like employee happiness or productivity over time, and this is reflected in stories such as this.

The best comments in this thread have advocated a personal, proactive approach to managing your work/life balance. This is true of almost everything about work - career development, training, raises, opportunities, etc etc.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#305

Post by slickrick3 »

mentalthrowaway wrote: post #89

This is only tangentially related, but since I'm posting under a throwaway (I've been on HN for many years under my main nick) and can't really ask anyone to upvote this, I feel that this is my best chance for someone to see it. For the last few months I've been growing more depressed, more anxious, and more stressed. I love my job, but it requires a good deal of interaction with clients, which never fails to stress…

your wrong about #2 in CA this is not the case however your employer is allowed to ask very specific questions about your reason for leave ( but most certainly not your specific illness or diagnoses) however these questions should be answered by a Dr and they are well trained in not giving up any compromising information.

IF your having serious trouble call your local mental hospital ( Stanford is world class they deal with this sort of thing all the time and there staff knows how to help you communicate with work.)

FYI :If you get fired while in the hospital or on leave without cause you have great grounds for a lawsuit ( plenty of lawyers will take these kinds of cases )

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#306

Post by ZoFreX »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #296
neilk wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Five ? Is there some connection - the same industry, or the same company?

Same industry (web development) different companies. The one thing which connects them all is a developer just like in the article. Driven to perfection, willing to do whatever is asked of him, and burns the candle at three ends until he finally goes over the edge. I'm talking averaging 70 hours a week for two year straight kind of candle burning. The kind of narcissistic pursuit which is simply impossible to achieve…

I would like to hear your stories :)

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#307

Post by ZoFreX »

keeptrying wrote: post #113

It's not only programmers. Its managers as well. Its anyone who subsumes their job to be their identity! At my old company (big corporation) management shuffles happen every 9 months to a year. One manager went from having 45 people working under him to 0. The guy had a nervous breakdown as well. I heard he swam in one of our large number of fish tanks. That could be a bad rumor though. Anyway he was admitted and all…

> So try to not be a bottom level programmer for long - either become a tech lead or a manager asap.

What if I want to escape the stress, but want my colleagues to escape it too? We can't all be managers.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#308

Post by Confusion »

driverdan wrote: post #283
michaelochurch wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around 130, you start to question and dislike authority, but you can still hold back. At 150, authority comes to you looking for fights (even if you don't do anything to it) because you make it insecure about its inherent illegitimacy and moral emptiness. Actual 150s are pretty rare: about 43 per 100,000 people. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=3.333+sigma

Incompetent authority may come looking for fights. Any competent authority figure is going to hire the smartest people possible. I have a high IQ and have never had regular "fights" with competent authority figures (management, government officials / LE, etc). I'm also very libertarian and don't like working for others but when I do I don't have problems. I also have good social skills so that probably plays a part t…

If you are sufficiently smart and capable of putting your knowledge of psychology to practice, you can usually work with the authorities to get what you want. If you get into trouble, your smartness or ability to act smart based on your knowledge isn't sufficiently broad enough. 'IQ' alone isn't enough information.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#309

Post by blueprint »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #164
konstruktor wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you work in a company you don't own, there are a lot of things you will encounter that not under your control (1). Personally, I find the Stoics' attitude very helpful when dealing with that fact. They advocate distinguishing between what is in our control and what isn't, suggesting to focus on acting honorably oneself, but always with reservation, i.e. aware that others can always stop us from reaching our goal…

> (1) Of course, if you start your own company, you will be dealing with things you can't control as well. You are technically correct. When you run your own company, the things that are "out of your control" don't feel that way, because at the end of the day, you decide how you want to act on them. If a customer insists on butting his head in malevolent ways into a user experience I've created for their product beca…

> Of its an especially unruly customer, I have two: fire them or work with them.

Employees have this freedom with their employers too, but not many realize it or are cowed by their personal circumstance. To compound this, one of the functions of (bad) management has been to keep them in the dark about their options outside of the company in case they get fed up with being shit on all the time.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#310

Post by eli_gottlieb »

freshhawk wrote: post #276
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to derail the thread, but nation-states are about as obsolete as operating systems.

So by obsolete you mean "not trendy to think about but still the single largest contributing factor to every aspect of day to day experience"?

Not quite every aspect, but the lion's share, yes. Precisely so.
Post reply on HN