Live data from Hacker News

Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

insidescience.org

71–80 of 145 posts

Re: Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

#71
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious as to the basis of your statement. I believe the opposite to be true. Gene theory, the general theory, anti-biotics, the structure of DNA, the function of neurons, and the transistor all came from specialists. Is it not the rare breakthrough that comes from cross-disciplinary work? The cross-disciplinary breakthrough is often characterized as unifying, and hence rightfully celebrated. But they are neither…

the structure of DNA, the function of neurons Crick, Hodgkin and Huxley were all physicists poaching in other fields. In fact, relatively few of the people who laid the foundations in molecular biology were trained as biologists.

> Crick, Hodgkin and Huxley were all physicists

This recollection is incorrect across the board.

Crick had only a bachelors in physics (which does not a physicist make), and his postgraduate training was in medical research. Huxley, an autodidact, had his background in medicine. I'm not sure about Hodgkin but I suspect he was also not a physicist.

Re: Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

#72
post #26

The connections are slim, but it sounds a bit like the NES AI, which played Mario pretty successfully just by "making bits go up" (more or less).

No you are right. You can compare this to almost any AI that uses a similar strategy, to predict the future and maximize some goal. The cool thing about this is that it defines it's goal as something general purpose enough to create interesting behaviors in a lot of different situations. But the hard part of AI is actually predicting the future in the first place. Exploring a search tree with billions and billions of…

> The cool thing about this is that it defines it's goal as something general purpose enough to create interesting behaviors in a lot of different situations.

Yep, that is the first thing that stood out to me about both the NES AI and this new paper. Both are defined in ways that are so far removed from the tasks they've been put to that they seem to seek out their own goals relevant to the context.

Re: Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

#73

This sounds like nonsense to me. First of all, what exactly do they mean by "intelligent behavior"? I looked in the paper but I couldn't find where they define what they are trying to model. They do however use the vague expression "remarkably sophisticated behaviors associated with the human ‘‘cognitive niche,’’ including tool use and social cooperation." Tool use and social cooperation, sounds interesting. Let's se…

Here's some intelligent behaviors that can be simply modelled as entropy: http://scalablegamedesign.cs.colorado.edu/wiki/Collaborative...

That's a very simple model that can be used, in that example, to make a number of ghost agents work together to converge on a pac-man, splitting themselves up to cover every exit. The code to do it is very small, smaller than A*, could also be used to do pathfinding, and is based essentially on the ideas of entropy.

Re: Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the structure of DNA, the function of neurons Crick, Hodgkin and Huxley were all physicists poaching in other fields. In fact, relatively few of the people who laid the foundations in molecular biology were trained as biologists.

> Crick, Hodgkin and Huxley were all physicists This recollection is incorrect across the board. Crick had only a bachelors in physics (which does not a physicist make), and his postgraduate training was in medical research. Huxley, an autodidact, had his background in medicine. I'm not sure about Hodgkin but I suspect he was also not a physicist.

Crick was perhaps halfway into a Ph.D. in physics when the war broke out, during which he basically did very applied physics for the British. After the war, he did a Ph.D. under Max Perutz on X-ray diffraction. Crystallography is very useful in biology, but it is itself very far from a biological topic. Crick wrote of experiencing extreme impedance mismatch when he switched from physics to biology and, perhaps most significantly, Watson often referred to Crick as 'the physicist' or to 'having him do the physics' (sorry, I don't have the full text in front of me) in The Double Helix, suggesting that his approach to biological problems was primarily a physical one. It is true that Crick did work under the Medical Research Council, but it is somewhat misleading to say that he was doing medical research in the conventional sense. He was studying the biophysics of cytoplasm, which is not something that people trained in medicine do.

I admit that Hodgkin and Huxley are harder cases: both had early inclinations to physics and then got sidetracked into physiology. Both of them spent the war doing things you'd have a physicist doing during a war, and afterwards did their their famous work on the action potential. I read the Hodgkin and Huxley papers, but I read them in a course in the math department-- they contain some of history's finest examples of mathematical modeling, relying heavily on dynamical systems and circuit theory. It is a regrettably rare biologist who wants to go near those papers. It is manifestly not the work of traditionally trained biologists.

Disciplinary boundaries in mid-century Britain were somewhat different then, and I realize the danger of playing No True Biologist. But the mainstream of biology is only very recently acknowledging the importance of the physical approach: Hodgkin and Huxley could have been Hodgkin and Huxley without a lick of genetics or ethology, but they couldn't have been Hodgkin and Huxley without the cable equation.

Re: Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

#76

This sounds like nonsense to me. First of all, what exactly do they mean by "intelligent behavior"? I looked in the paper but I couldn't find where they define what they are trying to model. They do however use the vague expression "remarkably sophisticated behaviors associated with the human ‘‘cognitive niche,’’ including tool use and social cooperation." Tool use and social cooperation, sounds interesting. Let's se…

[deleted]

Re: Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

#77
After a quick glance, this sounds a lot like information theoretic empowerment, which has been around for more than five years:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjourna...

https://uhra.herts.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/2299/6712/1/901919...

https://uhra.herts.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/2299/9659/1/ContiP...

Also the concept of homeokinesis is quite similar and also not quoted in this work:

http://www.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/~der/Forschung/homeoki....

Re: Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

#78
post #11

Cognitive science states that intelligence is all about finding patterns, and patterns reduce randomness, or what can be expressed in terms of entropy. What's new here? Capturing future-histories? As long as the patterns can describe the time evolution of steps ahead, the patterns would reduce the complexities of what needs to be described, or what Wissner-Gross may say by "capturing as many future-histories as possi…

I'm no expert in either physics or cog neuroscience, but it sounds similar by name to the Free Energy Principle of brain function.

http://neuroticthought.tumblr.com/post/9044776197/is-this-a-...

Re: Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

#79
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious as to the basis of your statement. I believe the opposite to be true. Gene theory, the general theory, anti-biotics, the structure of DNA, the function of neurons, and the transistor all came from specialists. Is it not the rare breakthrough that comes from cross-disciplinary work? The cross-disciplinary breakthrough is often characterized as unifying, and hence rightfully celebrated. But they are neither…

the structure of DNA, the function of neurons Crick, Hodgkin and Huxley were all physicists poaching in other fields. In fact, relatively few of the people who laid the foundations in molecular biology were trained as biologists.

> Crick, Hodgkin and Huxley were all physicists poaching in other fields.

And Fisher was a statistician.

Re: Physicist proposes new way to think about intelligence

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He just set a goal of keeping the potential energy maximized for the rod, just like a big blue set a goal of winning at chess 30 years ago, both by 'predicting the future'. I don't see anything new here except the phrase 'future histories' which is not even defined because it just means 'the future'. As soon as I saw it claiming it can win at the stock market I knew it was BS.

It's not "predicting" the future, it's "maximizing" the number of potential futures. In chess, the more moves you have available the better you are doing, generally. But another measure (probably better although I'm not a chess expert) is how few moves your opponent has available. Strictly speaking it sounds like this strategy would emphasize keeping future moves available for both you and your opponent. This is a mo…

Yeah, seems to me their idea can be summarized as "in the absence of a specific goal, keep options open".

Which is generally good advice, but only "in the absence of a specific goal".

Post reply on HN