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I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

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Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#81

Post by jaimebuelta »

pgsandstrom wrote: post #72

Is it an american thing that workers do free overtime? I live in Sweden and I know NO ONE that stays late without being compensated either with money or shorter days later in the month.

It could be a cultural thing. In Spain and Ireland (where I've work), if there is some extra time involved, it's not compensated, unless it is very serious and requested from management (working weekends, etc) My impression is that some people just get a higher workload and work overtime "to catch up" without telling anyone. Of course that's a bad idea, as your manager won't probably notice that you are working overtime, and will increase again the work load "as you are capable of handling it".

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#83

Post by buro9 »

mduerksen wrote: post #57

(Generalisation Warning) This is the dark side of the (otherwise desirable) trait of "getting things done" as employee. I you don't actively manage your working hours and hold yourself back , somebody else will suck you out until you have nothing left. At the end, you will be very unsatisfied for some obscure reason: You did everything you was asked for, yet somehow noone appreciates you and you still earn entry-leve…

Most managers already know that you can't work 100%.

They expect 20% of your working week to be spent on things which support work but isn't directly the work task itself (meetings, communication, HR, training, etc). And as this is spread out across the week it's not as obvious and visible to the worker that this is the case.

One can still work unhealthily hard for those 4 days a week of real effort. I share your opinion that you should only work that hard 80% of the time (he says, as he starts another 12 hour day), but if you're not accounting for the stuff around the work that still adds up to working at 100% capacity and without the breaks to keep yourself sane, healthy and developing.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#84

Post by edw519 »

Although this is an extreme example, I sympathize and often have feelings like this. But it's not about the amount of work; it's about the constant internal struggle. Let me explain.

I have never had a problem about the volume or difficulty of work in any job I've ever had. In fact, some of my favorite memories of work have been sprints to finish something, whether in software, retail/distribution, or food service. I take great pride in delivering, sometimes with compromised quality, but always on time and budget. I imagine many here feel the same way.

My internal struggle is the constant questioning of whether or not I should even put up with illogical bullshit. I have no doubt that hard work, long hours, complex work, and difficult customers are occasionally part of my world. But every day, in my morning exercise when I would prefer focusing on the work of the day, I always find my mind drifting into anger over unnecessary bullshit like:

  - working for unethical people
  - watching others line their pockets while I work
  - choosing what's best for the company vs. the customer
  - busting my ass while others sit and watch
  - endless meetings about nothing
  - watching great stuff I built being scrapped by idiots
  - watching horrible decisions made by those for their own benefit
  - witnessing the functional taking back seat to the political
  - dealing with managers who don't understand technology (and don't care to learn)
  - dealing with people who don't understand the business/industry and (don't care to learn)
  - horrible working conditions for workers while managers get luxury
  - constant work-prevention structure imposed by people who have never accomplished anything
Some days I'm on top of the world, rejoicing when something I built provides great value to others. Other days, I feel like I'm digging holes on the beach only to see them filled up by the overnight tide of idiotic others.

My struggle continues. I only hope I have the foresight to take intervention before I ever become like OP.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#85

Post by [deleted] »

zer0gravity wrote: post #62
yen223 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you help someone out, you put yourself in an inferior position. What? This doesn't make sense. When you help someone out, you are putting that person in an inferior position. Does a beggar feel superior to you because you tossed him a quarter?

And this is precisely how the guy from the story thought, that's why he was saying he should be CEO, but the reality was different, because he was treated more like a slave..

[deleted]

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#87

Post by scoot »

edw519 wrote: post #84

Although this is an extreme example, I sympathize and often have feelings like this. But it's not about the amount of work; it's about the constant internal struggle. Let me explain. I have never had a problem about the volume or difficulty of work in any job I've ever had. In fact, some of my favorite memories of work have been sprints to finish something, whether in software, retail/distribution, or food service. I…

I think this point sums up (most of) the rest of your list quite nicely:

"watching horrible decisions made by [others] for their own benefit"

I think the answer lies in how you direct that feeling - either as hate for your job; or to drive a passion to control your own destiny by getting out and doing something yourself.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#88

Post by jbrooksuk »

eip wrote: post #39

The trick to avoiding complete burnout is easy. First - don't care at all about your job. Remember that all corporations are by definition psychopaths and they will treat you accordingly. Second - never do more then 35% of the work you are capable of doing in a day. Third - if you find yourself getting stressed out tell yourself repeatedly "It's only a stupid job. There is no point in stressing about it."

I believe I've been doing more than my 35% worth. Time to slow myself down.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#89

Post by mentalthrowaway »

This is only tangentially related, but since I'm posting under a throwaway (I've been on HN for many years under my main nick) and can't really ask anyone to upvote this, I feel that this is my best chance for someone to see it.

For the last few months I've been growing more depressed, more anxious, and more stressed. I love my job, but it requires a good deal of interaction with clients, which never fails to stress me out. Combine that with relationship nonsense and a general vicious cycle of pain (due to an injury causing chronic pain) and depression, and it's led to a situation where I'm spiraling out of control.

After many years of being fairly stable, I started self-harming again and ending up in these obsessive thought loops, culminating in thoughts of death and (occasionally) suicide. Now, I know myself well enough to know that I'm not going to commit suicide (I've been far worse than I am right now, and I've managed to pull myself away from that; I enjoy life entirely too much for suicide, even if things suck right now. I still have hope for the future, and that's not something I see changing.), but this is obviously not healthy. I know I need help, but I have a few problems:

Problem #1: I can't find a therapist I can actually trust and connect with. I have serious problems talking to people in real life, so I attempted online therapy; every one I tried was a complete and utter waste of hundreds of dollars. I don't know that I'd go so far as to call them scams, but I wouldn't feel bad about doing so. Regardless, text-based therapy would make a huge difference for me, and I just can't find anything that Doesn't Suck (TM).

Problem #2: I've been looking at treatment facilities to just go there, disconnect from the world, and focus on getting better. But I have a job, bills to pay (that can be dealt with by savings, assuming I have a job when I'm out), and responsibilities. I know about FMLA leaves of absence, but that requires you (!) to disclose your illness to your employee; given the massive stigma around mental illness, I really, really dislike that option. All of this, of course, means I feel even more pressure; even in treatment I would feel that pressure.

So, HN, what do I do? Problem #2 would be awesome to solve, but problem #1 is the big one; without ongoing therapy, any help I get isn't going to be sustained. I know there's a solution here, and I know I can get better. I'm optimistic about the future for many reasons, and I want to stop feeling like the sky is falling every 15 minutes.

Sorry for threadjacking, and thank you all.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#90

Post by fredsanford »

edw519 wrote: post #84

Although this is an extreme example, I sympathize and often have feelings like this. But it's not about the amount of work; it's about the constant internal struggle. Let me explain. I have never had a problem about the volume or difficulty of work in any job I've ever had. In fact, some of my favorite memories of work have been sprints to finish something, whether in software, retail/distribution, or food service. I…

Wow... This situation must be more common than I thought.

I've had a few jobs in my lifetime that left me with the feelings you posted here... The beatings will continue until morale improves.

These points: - working for unethical people - busting my ass while others sit and watch - watching horrible decisions made by those for their own benefit

were ultimately the biggest reasons I've left jobs.

In one place I worked, we created software for the financial industry and sold it in regions, like such-and-such county or city. Then our office setup one of our systems and competed under the table with the regional customers around us.

Scummy. Ultimately, I left over this issue and it is still my favorite job I've had or will ever have. All because one guy got greedy.

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