The Founder Visa
81–90 of 160 posts
Re: The Founder Visa
#82How would the government decide who's a startup investor? The same way they decide what counts as a university for student visas. We'll establish our own accreditation procedure. This part scares me. Accreditation boards are a bug, not a feature. Perhaps, like pg's idea, they started out as well intentioned. But today, their primary purpose is to erect arbitrary barriers of entries, thus propping of the salaries of p…
That is a worry. It would have to be super transparent. Originally I proposed a straightforward algorithm for deciding: to use Erdos numbers with Ron Conway as the seed. I took this out because I thought it was better not to go into this level of detail in the essay, but I'd advocate using something like this to decide who was a startup investor.
Re: The Founder Visa
#83I usually avoid politics, but since we now seem to have an administration that's open to suggestions, I'm going to risk making one If your goal is to persuade as many people as possible, insulting the previous administration and by extension those that voted for Bush is a bad start. I was already opposed to your idea before the second sentence, despite the fact that I'm an advocate of increased legal immigration.
I'm always curious when people say they advocate increasing immigration. Right now, the United States takes about 1.2 million immigrants legally into the country every year. Does this seem too low a number to you? If so, do you see a practical need for some kind of limit, or are you in favor of limitless immigration?
Re: The Founder Visa
#84Is there really a lack of people in the USA today who want to start companies? It might be a zero-sum game -- X dollars available for startups; if you let in a bunch of people, the startup dollars will go there rather than to people already here.
Re: The Founder Visa
#85Sorry, but I don't think that this makes much sense. INS already has their hands full, and it wouldn't be much fun for them to have to check up on thousands of startup founders to be sure that they're in fact running their business (1) viably, and (2) according to their agreed business plan. The system would be unbelievably easy to cheat. It also would be stupid easy to turn a "startup" into a money laundering scheme…
Wow, who up-votes this junk? Let's see: The INS has their hands full... PG said: 10,000 people is a drop in the bucket by immigration standards For comparison, there were 591,050 student and exchange visas granted in 2007 [1]. If the INS can handle checking up on individual students following educations via Universities, they can do the same with 1/200th the number of startups via investment firms. The system would b…
Yes, in terms of people. But you fail to understand that it's an entire new process and system that would have to be invented and executed.
You just don't think like a con-man. Universities have quite a bit on the line, such as accreditation. A private company has next to nothing on the line. Anyway, here's how I'd do it:
1. First off, I'd need to know somebody in the US who has a viable business and would vouch for me. Because immigrant communities support business focused on their interests, this wouldn't be very difficult. Of course they'd agree, because of the benefits for the home country (sending money home, etc.).
2. Have them offer fake investments to me and a pool of founders. Get approved by INS/State.
3. Once in the US, work as I please. Funnel this money back into the "startup" as profits. Plenty of startups can't even turn a profit, so financials wouldn't have to be impressive.
4. Rinse, repeat. The same business would only get approved so many times, but there are tons of businesses here.
Now, for the unscrupulous way (since there's nothing particularly immoral about the previous scenario). Note that I'm for the legalization of drugs, but that's not the point: The US gov't is sure as hell against that.
1. Have associate(s) in the US prop up a shell of a business that appears to be legitimate. Have them offer a huge investment for what appears to be a startup's credible business plan.
2. Move in under an alias with fake documents.
3. Funnel drug money through the "startup," which would be an ideal money laundering node. Because the plan is intended to produce successful businesses, nobody would blink an eye at the eye-popping profits. Just bullshit as much as necessary...if YouTube cooked the books, they could convince people that they were turning $150M profit annually easily. Show your cards as you please, since you're holding the deck.
4. If things get even remotely hot, leave the country. So much money's been successfully processed at this point that it's undoubtedly a net win. Hell, say you're flying to Lima to make a commencement speech on business. Nobody would stop you. The associates could claim ignorance obviously, as you were just some entrepreneur they put their hopes and dollars in. Even if the startup were irrevocably linked to money laundering, you're back home and extradition isn't happening, since you used a false identity.
5. Rinse, repeat with other associates.
"Give one shred of evidence aside from senseless pontification and I might consider it."
Evidence on a virgin immigration plan? I'm sure there's plenty out there!
Let's flip this: Tell me how you prevent either of the two previous scenarious, short of having the gov't handle the entire recommendation/approval process, which would pretty much defeat the purpose.
Sigh ... people are so naive.
Re: The Founder Visa
#86There is a simple alternative – remove the stupid restrictions on H1B visas. The restriction that if you loose/quit your job that you have to be out of the country in 60 days is bad for three reasons. The first reason is that the employer knows his worker is dependent on him – he can thus get away with a lower salary, etc... The second reason it is bad is that you cannot quit and start a start-up – if you do not have…
And, 1 million engineers and scientists would depress salaries in the US. That's a plus for founders, but a minus for engineers and scientists trying to find work.
I'm almost always on the side of greater immigration into this country, but I can see the downside of it as well.
Re: The Founder Visa
#87[deleted]
Re: The Founder Visa
#88Having been through the hoops, I'd generally support this, but it's a tough sell in today's economy. Because there are emotions involved. There are already similar visas (EB-5 and E-1). Especially the E-1 category is very close and could easily be amended to fit Paul's ideas (I used the E-1 as co-founder of my previous startup, EVE). One issue that needs to be addressed: you are not likely to get funding until you mo…
Not so: people could do the initial work for startups on student and H1-B visas, which they could then convert if they got funded.
Re: The Founder Visa
#89How would the government decide who's a startup investor? The same way they decide what counts as a university for student visas. We'll establish our own accreditation procedure. This part scares me. Accreditation boards are a bug, not a feature. Perhaps, like pg's idea, they started out as well intentioned. But today, their primary purpose is to erect arbitrary barriers of entries, thus propping of the salaries of p…
That is a worry. It would have to be super transparent. Originally I proposed a straightforward algorithm for deciding: to use Erdos numbers with Ron Conway as the seed. I took this out because I thought it was better not to go into this level of detail in the essay, but I'd advocate using something like this to decide who was a startup investor.
In politics, the organized faction always trumps the general interest. Say Faction A is 1% of the population. The faction wants to preserve a barrier to entry that costs every voter $100 and nets each faction member $10,000. The members of Faction A will be single issue voters over the barrier to entry. But to the rest of the public, the issue is lost in the noise. Average Joe does not even realize how much the barrier to entry costs him, because no interest group will fund ads to tell him. Thus the politician always supports the faction in order to prevent the 2% swing. ( I've spent time in both the state house and Congress, and this is exactly how the decision making process works).
The life cycle of any government policy ends up being the following: 1) Program is created to benefit the public good 2) The program inevitably directly benefits a small group - employees of the agency, contractors, etc. 3) The beneficiaries become dependent on the program. They organize in order to protect themselves politically. 4) In any policy battle where the interests of the beneficiaries collide with the public interest, the beneficiaries generally win. 5) As the beneficiaries win battles over time, the program ends up serving the beneficiaries at the expense of the public.
This is basically the life cycle of every program that has ever come out of Washington. The once mighty NASA now only exists to provide employment to NASA engineers. The school system exists mainly to provide employment to teachers. The AMA exists to erect barrier to entries to the medical profession. Etc, etc.
Your algorithm proposal is amusing because it is basically the same solution to the problem of corruption/factions that the progressives tried during the 20th century. The idea was that "scientific policy" based on algorithms and formulas, designed by academics and civil servants, could replace control by politicians. Needless to say, it was a miserable failure. A classic example of policy via algorithm is the creation of Nationally Recognized Statistical Rating Organization's who used algorithms to dictate which loans regulated funds were allowed to invest in. It did not take too long for Wall St. to figure out a way to structure the riskiest loans imaginable in ways that would pass through the algorithm. The rating agencies are a high profile example, but there are hundreds of other similar failures. In practice "scientific public policy" ends up being the worst of both worlds. It combines the downsides of algorithms (lack of intervening personal judgment when the algorithm gets gamed) with the downsides of politics (corruption/factional power struggles).
Re: The Founder Visa
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is a worry. It would have to be super transparent. Originally I proposed a straightforward algorithm for deciding: to use Erdos numbers with Ron Conway as the seed. I took this out because I thought it was better not to go into this level of detail in the essay, but I'd advocate using something like this to decide who was a startup investor.
The point is you don't get to control the algorithm. When I interned in the Massachusetts State House, I sat through a meeting discussing the algorithm that decides how much state money each local school district receives. Now I'm sure you or I could come up with a quite elegant algorithm. But the actual algorithm was a complex beast that no staffer at the meeting could begin to understand. It was the evolved product…