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The Founder Visa

paulgraham.com

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Re: The Founder Visa

#11

Post by tomsaffell »

yan wrote: post #3

I'm thinking: how can this be exploited? Can someone just say they're building a new way to shorten urls and need two years in the country to build their business to fruition? And what defines success or progress?

If someone did apply under false pretenses, get here, and do nothing, then what would be the negative impact on the country?

PG's suggestion was that they cannot work for other companies, so they are not depriving anyone of a job. They will have to live somehow (on whomever's money they have), and that will go into the local economy. If you add a clause to the visa that they cannot claim any type of social welfare, then I think the potential downside of 'gaming' nowhere near outweighs* all the potential upsides.

* - opportunity cost of the 10,000 spots excepted, which is why you have the right folks picking the 10,000.

Re: The Founder Visa

#12

Post by jey »

That's a good idea. The visa system generally makes it hard for hard-working highly-motivated highly-educated foreigners to come to the US and create value. PG is right that we should be attracting these people instead of throwing random obstacles in their way.

-- American-born son of an immigrant Indian scientist

Re: The Founder Visa

#13

Post by jmtame »

tc wrote: post #10

This line made me smile: I think this would have such a visible effect on the economy that it would make the legislator who introduced the bill famous. It reminded me of "Law 13" of "The 48 Laws of Power": uncover something in your request... that will benefit him, and emphasize it out of all proportion. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=555691

Probably true when you look 4-5 years into the future and some of these seed companies start growing out into real, profitable, sustainable businesses.

Re: The Founder Visa

#14

Post by pg »

tc wrote: post #10

This line made me smile: I think this would have such a visible effect on the economy that it would make the legislator who introduced the bill famous. It reminded me of "Law 13" of "The 48 Laws of Power": uncover something in your request... that will benefit him, and emphasize it out of all proportion. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=555691

Surely it's more an example of Rule #1.

Re: The Founder Visa

#15

Post by tokenadult »

After edit: On second reading of your article, this differs from the existing investor visa category

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f...

in asking the would-be immigrant to put up talent rather than money as the sign he will run a successful business. That's in line with your usual take on how easy it is to start up new businesses in today's economy.

It's an intriguing idea to broaden the talent pool available for seed-stage investors to invest in. The political objections will revolve around

a) What happens to the people who start up but flame out, failing in their businesses? It's expensive to deport people who have already arrived, and they sometimes disappear from the view of law enforcement.

b) Why shouldn't the United States start-up investment market be preferentially granted to persons who have legal right to work in the United States? (My bias is toward free movement of people across borders, but the only reason immigration law exists at all is that not everyone shares my bias, not in any country.)

P.S. I am a lawyer, and used to practice immigration law, although the bulk of the cases I worked on involved different visa categories.

Re: The Founder Visa

#16

Post by tomsaffell »

Nice idea. Feels like a version of the E-2, brought in line with the new realities of the cost of starting a web based business - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E2_visa (government is always slow). Rather than requiring applicants to bring monetary capital into the country, they'd be required to bring start-up capital, as measured by those who will invest in it.

Re: The Founder Visa

#18

Post by tc »

jmtame wrote: post #13
tc wrote: post #10

This line made me smile: I think this would have such a visible effect on the economy that it would make the legislator who introduced the bill famous. It reminded me of "Law 13" of "The 48 Laws of Power": uncover something in your request... that will benefit him, and emphasize it out of all proportion. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=555691

Probably true when you look 4-5 years into the future and some of these seed companies start growing out into real, profitable, sustainable businesses.

Can you point to an example where a politician has received unequivocal credit or blame for something he or she did 4-5 years ago? It often seems that the look-back period is only about two weeks. The enormous cost of Sarbanes-Oxley to US competitiveness doesn't seem to have adversely impacted the careers of Sarbanes, Oxley, or the numerous other legislators who voted to enact the regulation.

Re: The Founder Visa

#19

Post by ajju »

alain94040 wrote: post #6

Having been through the hoops, I'd generally support this, but it's a tough sell in today's economy. Because there are emotions involved. There are already similar visas (EB-5 and E-1). Especially the E-1 category is very close and could easily be amended to fit Paul's ideas (I used the E-1 as co-founder of my previous startup, EVE). One issue that needs to be addressed: you are not likely to get funding until you mo…

Care to elaborate on how you got through the hoops?

Many (or most) of the people taking advantage of such a visa might be those already in the US on student or work visas.

Re: The Founder Visa

#20

Post by calambrac »

tomsaffell wrote: post #11
yan wrote: post #3

I'm thinking: how can this be exploited? Can someone just say they're building a new way to shorten urls and need two years in the country to build their business to fruition? And what defines success or progress?

If someone did apply under false pretenses, get here, and do nothing, then what would be the negative impact on the country? PG's suggestion was that they cannot work for other companies, so they are not depriving anyone of a job. They will have to live somehow (on whomever's money they have), and that will go into the local economy. If you add a clause to the visa that they cannot claim any type of social welfare, t…

Maybe add a requirement to hold in escrow enough money to ship the person back, for the case where their startup fails?
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